secbox,
@secbox@vivaldi.net avatar

While planning on begrudgingly casting a ballot for Biden this year, it's wild to see so many takes saying, "Yeah, #genocide is bad, but OTHER THAN THAT..." as if that's something you can gloss over. That's some real #neoliberal BS.

And it's not even like Biden will do anything meaningful on the #ClimateCrisis either, the other greatest threat facing our world. His continued subsidies of #FossilFuels and giving passes to mega carbon emitters over the past four years is proof of that.

And don't give me BS about, "bUt He'Ll sTaBIlIzE DeMoCraCy!!!" The previous administration showed where the holes in the US government system were and where safeguards should have been deployed. Instead of working to install those safeguards, he chose to use them as a bargaining chip for a second term.

Improvements to The Economy(TM) and employment numbers means shit when people have to work 2 or 3 jobs to keep their families off the street.

I urge all who can to vote for Biden in the hopes that the administration stabilizes the broken country long enough for the next generation, whom we have SORELY wronged, to present a new generation of truly #progressive leaders and hope that another term doesn't further entrench the "conservative-lite." I equally urge you to hold him accountable for his misdeeds.

#USPol #socialism

ecsd,
@ecsd@commons.whatiwanttoknow.org avatar

@secbox

<While planning on begrudgingly casting a ballot for Biden this year>

Then just don't.

<his administration will just continue to suck but [nonsense] and so I exhort people to just vote Biden anyway>

So, JUST DON'T vote for Biden. "Shit" will happen anyway but your conscience will be clear.

==

Really: if you confess you have to "turn up your nose" to "get past voting for Biden", "hold your nose" and vote OTHER as if you actually had a choice (since you do) and if we all did that, we'd be free.

As I say: don't complain to me which wretched scum GETS elected because you-all voted for one wretched scum or another; I voted for a GOOD person; my choice cannot have hurt anyone. YOURS did.

Figure it out beforehand and vote OTHER.

image/png

secbox,
@secbox@vivaldi.net avatar

@ecsd

We all have reasons for voting how we do. As a member of a leftist third party, I agree with you: no matter which of the two major candidates we choose, they will continue the current cycle of violence against different (or sometimes the same) people.

The difference is that, under one, the country won't turn into a dictatorship. Is Biden a conservative sympathizer? Yes. Will HE be the one to stop fascists from taking over the country? No. I'm only voting for him to give the people 4 more years to work towards a real solution to the far right and moderate right Democrats.

If you think voting "OTHER" will make a difference, I support your ability to make that choice and sympathize, also ready for the two party system to end. I just don't think now is the time. My personal belief is that the time will be when more voters have shifted further left by realigning the Overton Window closer to its original skew; that will be when an "OTHER" vote will be more effective. We already see almost 20% of Democratic votes in the primaries be blank. It's not long now.

This is wild of me to say, because just a few months ago, I was arguing, like you, "If not now, when?!" But, for me, keeping a broken system that can be fixed by those that come after me is more pressing than risking a dictatorship that would harm far more.

ecsd,
@ecsd@commons.whatiwanttoknow.org avatar

@secbox

<The difference is that, under one, the country won't turn into a dictatorship.>

{laughs} You have LESS THAN no evidence to back that up. That is an assertion out of a VACUUM, or worse, assisted by totally ignoring the news. [thus it's easy to predict it's an attitude dispensed by the MSM.]

The Democrats have a persistent erection wishing to control the flow of information in our country. I suggest you have allowed yourself to be misled by the difference in APPROACH between the two parties, but the net result will be the same. Corporate Fascism.

I don't know what the name is for your point of view. It clings to the notion that there is some "rescue" pending from within the Democratic Party, "if only we can overcome the right-wing of the party." Quickly: No, you can't, WHY? People keep VOTING for the "right wing of the party", because the only people supported to get elected are those who've in advance sworn loyalty to the right wing of the party. The one-second test: I ask you to think, for ONE SECOND, of THAT ANTIWAR CANDIDATE the Democrat party has ADVANCED to gain public favor. You CAN'T. There IS NO SUCH PERSON. You keep believing there are "two parties", as if EITHER party is going to confront the PLUTOCRATS.

I invite you to simply IGNORE their warnings about Trump's "imminent dictatorship"; REMEMBER that we live in an information-totalitarian state and that the MAINSTREAM MEDIA are organized to present consistent system-desired outcomes.

It makes MORE sense to believe that Trump is an AGENT of this system, whose role is to BE that bogeyman, the monster in the closet. NEED I REMIND YOU they said ALL THE SAME THINGS about Trump prior to 2016. What has Donald Trump been doing in the near meantime? Ramping up his MONSTER IN THE CLOSET routine. I'd bet a dime he practices in front of a mirror.

The only way out of an infinite LOOP is to BREAK THE LOOP. The ONLY people who are RESCUING US in ANY WAY are those who REFUSE TO PERPETUATE THE SYSTEM. So what does THE SYSTEM tell us about doing that?

WAIT FOUR MORE YEARS. DON'T ROCK THE APPLE CART. SOMEBODY (WE DON'T KNOW WHO) WILL RESCUE YOU OVER THE RAINBOW. Forget that we demand you capitulate AGAIN to "THIS election" in hopes that the election which (may) come in ANOTHER four years will be "THE" magic moment people will FINALLY act.

No: your PROVE your intent by saying NO, NOW, by saying NO MORE VOTES FOR ZIONIST-supporting candidates EVER AGAIN, that avenue is DEAD BECAUSE WE BOYCOTT IT, WE DON'T WANT SERVANTS OF THE PLUTOCRACY FROM EITHER PARTY and we certainly don't entertain "shit will be fixed at the end of the rainbow" rhetoric.

IF NOT NOW, WHEN?

Sorry, "WAIT FOUR ///MORE/// YEARS" is WHAT WE HEAR EVERY FOUR MORE YEARS. The future belongs to those who WORK TO ACHIEVE IT.

==

Is the nation prepared for a GENERAL STRIKE? No, because it hasn't been ORGANIZED yet and we don't know what we would be demanding, our list of dire needs is so great. What we see is that STOPPING GENOCIDE is a great motivator.

What people need to be led to see is that our malaise is all of a piece. Can we organize around ONE PRINCIPLE? I think so, I think easily so:

GET RID OF THE TYRANNY OF MONEY, starting with eliminating the "owning class". Bezos, et. al., do not deserve POWER and EVERYONE KNOWS THIS, so I suggest that's the first thing to stop: the subservience to money, subservience to the rich.

Step One, in any case, is JAM THOSE who keep you in thrall.

There is no "threat of dictatorship" UNLESS YOU BELIEVE IT. The answer to that "threat" is: "It's all BULLSHIT. We're AMERICANS and we don't submit to totalitarian-ANYONE." I.e. Just Say No.

Otherwise, any one man with a gun runs your country BECAUSE YOU LET HIM.

"Trump says." WHO GIVES A SHIT WHAT TRUMP SAYS? Like that. He's a dictator only in his VERY SMALL MIND, because NOT ONE OTHER AMERICAN WILL SUPPORT HIM TO BE HITLER II. Or they are TO BE KILLED as well!! {laughs}

==

I'll say again: they've caught you with the "dire emergency" bullshit -- that they whip out like clockwork EVERY FOUR YEARS.

One beats that crap by IGNORING it.

If we have to have a SECOND AMERICAN REVOLUTION then fuck it, being it on. The people who risked life and property circa 1775 are not other than we. But this time, the new Constitution won't enshrine property ownership.

==

Just be self-consistent: if you really want OTHER then VOTE OTHER. Anything else is just an excuse for surrender.

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secbox,
@secbox@vivaldi.net avatar

@ecsd

Even when framing this like a battle with your use of words like, "defeat," "surrender," and "revolution," decisions must be made tactically. Even in Napoleonic-style battles with columns marching in broadside formation towards each other, maneuvering, feigning, and even tactical retreats are all often required for victory. The Charge of the Light Brigade, Little Big Horn, and Gettysburg are all examples of how if one goes all-out at the wrong time, it can lead to disaster.

I don't believe you read my post fully. I'm not arguing that the Democratic Party will save us or that we just need "four more years." This is a long-term process towards progress that will requiring a dismantling or at least complete rebuilding of both parties.

You said it: the nation is not ready for a general strike. If it can't even decide to walk out of their jobs at the same time, what makes you think there will be enough of a vote for an option not even on the ballot that a difference would be made?

The nation is rapidly devolving into a corporate fascist state, I agree. What I will argue is that the process was unquestionably accelerated under 45 at a rate far exceeding what we saw from Biden.

One of two people will be president in 2024. I'll cast my vote for the one that will allow a 2028 election. We're not totalitarian yet.

ecsd,
@ecsd@commons.whatiwanttoknow.org avatar

@secbox

My counterargument was "we've been there and done that" more than once and failed. ['retreat and regroup.']

If you do not one day embark on a different path, you will never reach a new destination. The time for Waiting is long past us by now.

I did read your post. I just disagree. I invite you to prove with anything approching mathematical/logical precision that "IF Trump is elected, THEN we will get a dictatorship." I TOLD you that THAT is a FEAR they are abusing us with and that a bit of reflection is enough to dispel it.

We're in this new society and a cop hands you a gun and tells you "shoot this person standing next to you or we will shoot you next." Do you comply? We would call people who refused "heroes". Are we no longer capable of Heroism?

If, if Trump gets elected and declares a dictatorship, nobody stands up and says aloud "well fuck that and fuck you", then Trump deserves to be a dictator [then WE don't deserve to be rescued.]

I don't have any friends or family. I'm one of those people who can be looked to for action because I cannot be bribed AGAINST it by threats to anyone else but me. Also, at my age and in my state of health and the fact that I am not yet and cannot foresee living on a Caribbean beach sipping Pina Coladas for 'the rest of my life' I do not have that much to lose to risk fighting for the rest of us - the rest of you. I can think of worse ways to go than having picked up a gun or other weapon to confront any next jack-booted thug() demanding I express my devotion to Lord Trump.
(
) including Lord Trump himself.

==

So in the end, the only people who will INDEED sacrifice the rest of us to totalitarianism, when the choice to vote OTHER is plainly on the table, are those who tell us

VOTE DUOPOLY OR DUOPOLY WILL WIN

[The MSM tells us] You MUST, MUST MUST MUST WITHOUT FAIL BELIEVE THAT

ONLY "One of two people will be president in 2024."

Because IF you voted other -- if we ALL voted OTHER -- we would get OTHER. The only """CHOICE""" you've given us is to vote for ONE OF TWO PARTIES WHO WILL DELIVER US INTO FASCISM IF WE LET THEM.

[The Democrats BTW eagerly sue to keep third parties off the ballot. Not Totalitarian?]

"I'll cast my vote for the one that will allow a 2028 election." That will be JILL STEIN, CLAUDIA DE LA CRUZ, or perhaps CORNEL WEST.

I'll put it another and more urgently topical way: I'm NOT going to vote for ANYONE who supports Israel, and FOR FUCK'S SAKE, NOT ANYONE WHO HAS SO FAR OVERSEEN AND ENDORSED THE GENOCIDE OF 40,000 PEOPLE.

==

https://medium.com/@adventuresinthefreeworld/a-brief-history-lesson-timeline-of-democrats-running-centrist-presidential-candidates-and-a09c31692d26

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/06/16/time-reinvest-people-and-cut-weapons-war-barbara-lee-unveils-plan-cut-350-billion

@violetmadder

violetmadder,
@violetmadder@kolektiva.social avatar

@ecsd @secbox

The Pied Piper Strategy is what killed it for me. I see the DNC riding the GOP's coattails while enthusiastically flogging them toward the right. It's a good cop / bad cop tag team. The bad cop's job is to make the good cop look better so we'll capitulate to the "deal".

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