This would be much more efficient if it had other transportation as well.
Like non-electric cars, trains, subways, etc.
It’s not too hard to get their efficiency as well.
NEXT DAY EDIT: Should’ve looked, there’s actually a handy chart showing the energy efficiencies of a whole bunch of vehicles and modes of transport just straight up on Wikipedia. This article. Comparing the km/MJ column, we can see:
Walking 4.55
Velomobile with enclosed recumbent: 12.35 (there wasnt a figure for just regular biking)
Solar car: 14.93
Tesla Model 3: 1.76
General Motors EV1: 1.21
All combustion engines are below 1, but here’s a few:
VW Passat: 0.33 Cadillac CTS-V: 0.17 Renault Clio: 0.42
There’s a whole bunch of other stats though so I suggest checking the table
Also biking and walking are not necessarily even viable for certain commutes such as any over about 4 miles/ whatever that is in kilometers say 8, and anytime I need to carry heavy luggage / groceries. Or anytime anybody with mobility issues needs to travel.
It’s all very well insane if we wanted to buy an e-bike and get rid of their car but that’s not really practical.
Oh man. Well, I agree on the other things you said, but… 6.4 km isn’t that much. It’s a fair bit, yeah, but not that much. With an e-bike, it’s not really even a thing. I chose to use the healthcare in the next city over (I live on the border of two cities) and I have about ~7km whenever I go there. 10-15 min with an ebike. With a regular one it’d be a chore, but it wouldn’t take much longer, 20-25 minutes maybe with a loose pace.
But yeah biking definitely can’t replace everything. I mean, cargo bikes exist, but still.
With mobility issues, we now have a lot of mobility “scooters” that go about 25km/h per the EU regulations. Like a super buffed up wheelchair. with a sort of chassis. Small enough to fit in the back of a taxi-van that has a disabled lift, but still quick enough to use in a similar way as a bike.
Bikes don’t have to replace everything to make a big difference. Something like “use them as the default choice for shorter distances” makes a big difference.
I would like to one day see one of those horrible American cities that you can’t even traverse on foot / bike, but I don’t want to step a foot in the US, with the whole fucked up corruption, military-industrial complex, and the whole budding protofascism.
The break-even distance in urban areas, where it takes the same amount of time to bike, is typically more like 7 miles. That’s about half of commutes. Not a 100% replacement for everybody, but big enough to make a meaningful difference.
Food tends to have significant energy inputs in the form of methane gas used in the production of nitrogen fertilizer, diesel tractors, transportation, and cooking
If you are eating stupid amounts of meat every meal, sure you might average that high.
And more than that, the food is just CO2, arguably not as bad of a GHG. the petrol/gasoline also has the really bad stuff people don’t bring up as much, such as the nitrogen-oxides and sulfurs.
numbers are just cursory googles so they may be off, e.g. “carbon footprint of a burger” (~3.2kg CO2 per) followed by “calories in a big mac” (590)
The majority of the calories in a burger come from the bun and condiments, so it’s pretty far from a “stupid” amount of meat - As sad as it is, the average american eats 12.2oz of meat a day, and a big mac only has 3.2oz
Food production (particularly beef and rice) are among the worlds largest sources for methane (a worse GHG) - also usually fossil fuels burned by production/transportation is generally factored into these estimates
Regardless, the point i was poorly making is that this infographic sucks because it makes a false equivalency between “energy efficiency” and “good for the environment”. As I noted - biking is substantially more energy efficient than driving an ICE (~21x; 800 vs 16680), but after adjusting for the carbon footprint of food, that 21x becomes somewhere in the range of ~1-9x depending on diet. I suspect this graphic doesn’t list ICEs because they weight half as much and likely come in at a higher efficiency (despite being better for the environment) - which of course goes against the narrative it’s trying to present
While I like this chart, it’s useless without the tradeoff. It also needs to map speed to time spent. What is being given up for improved efficiency? The inflection point is how you move people from point A to point B.
I get what you are trying to ask, and why, but unfortunately, such a comparison is not so trivial:
Setting aside load (weight) and age differences, various transportation means use gear shifting in order to adapt the power output to the characteristics of the current load (as in “system load” this time). This adds a dimension of dynamism to the comparison, and most vehicles do not automatically and systematically impose an ideal efficiency constraint on the power output.
To illustrate, using a single speed bike requires vastly different power than using a 7 speed bike. And different driving styles will radically change the efficiency of combustion engines.
So, in addition to mapping the efficiency to various speeds, it should be mapped to various use cases (hence why combustion engines have different fuel economy in “urban” and “extra urban” situations).
In the end, the graphic would not be 2D like this one, or 3D like it would be with “time per km” (or mile) vs energy requirement, and per type of vehicle, but there would be several 3D graphics, one per vehicle type, with time per km vs environment vs energy consumption.
TBH I was gonna try and do that, but even with ADHD, I can see this is going to be mad time consuming. So yeah, no, I think I’ll pass. Good idea tho. “Someone” should do it. 😇
Time efficiency in a modern urban area optimized for public transport and non-motorized transport modes compared to time efficiency in current typical urban areas, which are focused on individual motorized transport modes with severe lack of public transport:
That’s nice, but in my town at least driving to work takes half the time of taking the direct bus and that’s with half the roads in the town being closed to private vehicles. To walk to work I have to walk for 2 hours without breaks down to the bridge and back up the other side or cycle for 50 minutes (at -10°C) this is compared to a 10 minute drive through the tunnel.
I genuinely wouldn’t mind taking the bus if my kids daycare was open longer.
Keep in mind that although an electric bike might use more energy input than a regular road bike, it uses a much cleaner type of fuel. Even the most dirty coal power plant in the world has a significantly lower CO2 output per watt hour than the food you are eating to power a bicycle. Even if you are vegan
EBikes are awesome. I live in a hilly area where riding is tough. EBikes allows people of all ages and abilities to get out. Even with the assistance you still burn calories… as long as it’s assisted peddling and not the illegal bikes I see delivery guys riding.
I ride road bikes but when I get older and less capable I’ll certainly invest in an ebike.
I don’t begrudge the deliverers their powered bikes, they have a tough enough gig and it’s one less car. I do wish e-scooters would stop going fast among foot traffic though. My kid moves pretty unpredictably, and has had near misses in pedestrian areas
Yeah, micro mobility is great on paper when you’re young and live in an accessible city with flat topography. Years ago I became (and still am) a bicycle commuter and I am ENTIRELY SICK OF IT. I want a fucking car. I am tired of biking in the rain and the snow and the cold. It fucking sucks.
Also If I didnt have the ability to purchase an e-bike recently I’d be fucked with the terrain of the place I am currently stuck living (and even that doesn’t quite cover the situation).
Also I am tired of minor injuries compounding year over year due to the simple fact that I am using my body as both the engine and support structure to move myself, vehicle and cargo around just to live.
It was fun 10 years ago but now I’m just like give me a fucking cargo van.
I completely understand the weather thing. In the Netherlands it doesn’t get that cold, but the rain is really annoying (it rained basically non-stop from october till late february). In the city where I live however, there is also a pretty good bus service, so you can avoid cycling longer distances in the rain. For me I find cycling in good weather so good for my mental and physical health that I wouldn’t want to go without it.
You say an e-bike doesn’t quite do it for you, and I’m curious what you mean. Is it that it doesn’t have the range, that the engine isn’t strong enough for hills, or something else? I would love to learn about more disadvantages of micromobility, so I can create more nuanced opinions.
I used to live in Boston, which in recent years has become very bike friendly and is actually setup to make sense using a bike for primary transport (fairly robust public transit for the US, physically pretty small), but now I live in a city in Massachusetts where the area has very little bike infrastructure, and the landscape is hills and valleys of hundreds of feet of varied elevation every half mile or so. Using a non-electric bike for daily errands / transport would be equivalent to running a marathon every time I need to pop over to the grocery store. The e-bike battery and range runs out so fast that i’m basically limited to a single specific errand every time I go out—no option for doing more than one thing. Also add to the fact that everything is designed around cars so amenities are not blocks away, but rather towns away.
The northeastern United States sees basically every type of weather so there are days where it’s wonderful to be out on a bike and days were it is a complete nightmare—when you have to get on your bike to get to work when its raining sheets or 10 degrees (Fahrenheit) outside and there is no other option it becomes a wretched ordeal.
My point is, beyond a very specific set of circumstances where weather, health, topography, public transit infrastructure and also the immense luxury of even being able to live in a city all line up, using a bike as a primary mode of transportation is completely useless solution.
Also I am tired of minor injuries compounding year over year due to the simple fact that I am using my body as both the engine and support structure to move myself, vehicle and cargo around just to live.
I’m sorry you’re getting pushback and criticism for this. As someone who physically can’t bicycle and struggles with mobility, I strongly support well designed and well maintained walkable communities, bicycle infrastructure, and effective public transit. And I recognize that, for some people, the basic right to travel and work and generally function in society requires personal car ownership.
That doesn’t mean I sympathize much with people who live in subdivisions off major highways with no grocery stories within twenty miles - there shouldn’t be any community anywhere designed to require car ownership.
But I also don’t sympathize much with people who want to ban all personal vehicle ownership from their little 15 minute utopias. Disabled people exist.
I agree with this. Cities shouldn’t be car exclusive, but eliminating cars completely would also alienate villagers and people living in rural areas, in addition to disabled people.(written by an european who has family in those regions)
I am old enough where these sorts of points have much heavier weight. I can bike, but my body is not happy after any non-trivial distance.
I now have my eye on an electric recumbant trike. It solves all of my ergonomic (back) issues, and the electric would help with some of the terrain struggles and help me more accurately predict travel time. Plus, there’s a bit more storage for, e.g., a change of clothes for the destination. They’re damned expensive, though, even the cheapest.
Doesn’t solve the weather issue, but I’m sure someone makes a version that has a shell; at which point you’re essentially just driving around a small, slow, electric car with a lot of limitations.
I’m still going to replace my bike with a recumbent, though. My body just can’t handle that position for prolonged periods anymore.
Busses barely provide any service where I live. Walking is useless because nothing is close enough for that to be a viable option. I have an electric scooter, it is useless because of the local terrain (and is just as shitty as biking as a means of transport anyway). And sure, yeah, just “move” because that is so simple to do.
I’ve been telling everyone how most people don’t need a car in a big enough city (I’m in Europe), and how much more efficient (PROPER) public transport is.
…And then I get the work commute metro trains where stupid/inconsiderate/disgusting people still get on the packed train despite being sick, keep standing in my kidney and sneeze/cough at others (without a mask, of course) and sniff their nose all the way. Every single time when that happens I dream about having my own car where I don’t have to deal with this (or an idiot blasting TikTok from their speakers, being drunk+loud, smelly, etc.).
I still won’t have a car, but man, sometimes the right decision isn’t the easiest.
I live in a city with very good public transport which I use constantly. I also have an E-bike.
However, one needs to note that if I buy something big (extra lot of groceries, a new computer, a painting, anything that doesn’t fit in a backpack), using PT is pretty inconvenient. Especially when I’d be faster just carrying the thing home from Ikea, since I only live some 2km away, but the bus routes don’t go across the boroughs (but radially from the center outwards, with a few “lateral” buses), so I’d take two buses and it’d be some 10km. And if it’s raining and I have an item that shouldn’t get wet…
Also, taking a cat to the vet for instance.
I’m just waiting on when public transport will be supplemented with small city EV-s you can rent for a few hours cheaply. Like those e-scooters, but small cars, and with more regulations.
I know an apartment building which gives the tenants (mostly young students) the option to reserve and rent an EV for just a few euros an hour. And you don’t need to fill the tank, so it’s pretty nice.
Had a neighbour in his 80, had multiple leg operations and he still used to take a daily bike ride to keep fit. Not to mention that even if bike commutes suck, they improve your mental health considerably, even if you go in the rain/cold.
And most importantly of all, those who can take the bike cover those who can’t. So please enjoy your car ride, but take the bike when you can.
Do you personally commute by bike 100% of the time for literally every outing to get to work or run errands? Because I do, and have for a decade. I’m over it.
“What about the disabled / elderies / social anxiety” must be the most bad-faith argument lmao. My friend got disabled because of cars. Most car drivers are not disabled, are they? Exemption for handicapped people already exists.
Oh there’s always a genuine, non-sarcastic use for a car. I’m close enough to work to cycle without blinking, yet scheduling and family pressures / drop-offs/ pick-ups mean that it’s more time-sensible to drive.
I hate it. I used to cycle every day to work.
The other shitty thing in the equation is the public transport which functions at a generous 40% of what it might.
I’d hate to wrap my soggy brain around solving the problem, but I wish someone would; more routes, more frequency, more funding. = fewer cars.
I’m in Canada and my e-bike does indeed have a 32km/h limiter. I was a little amused, though, to discover that there is a phone app which can lift this limit, so it appears to only be in software. But I have left it at 32 regardless. I’m perfectly happy with that.
I think it’s safe to assume the post author means level 1 e-bikes. IE those that are unmodified/legal in their jurisdictions and require the rider to pedal for assist.
The car is correctly represented, about 0.15 KWh / km is what one gets.
However, the positioning of the e-bike looks strange to me. I’ve looked at previous studies and the e-biker has always been first in efficiency - because the efficiency of a motor far exceeds the efficiency of human digestion and muscles, while weight and speed remain comparable to an ordinary cyclist.
I think someone has calculated food energy incorrectly, or assumed that e-bikes move faster than they do. :)
I think many people peddle just as hard on an electric bike, so the 5.5 kWh/km is a given, the rest is the energy required to go faster. Since air resistance increases with the square of the speed, it might very well be the case that 14 kWh/km at 25 km/h is more efficient than what the human alone would need to deliver for the same speed.
Edit: I failed to take into account that for the human at the same level of effort the power remains constant, not the energy per kilometer. Going faster at the same power output would reduce the energy expenditure per kilometer for the human to about 4 kWh/km, which would indicate that 10 kWh/km is being delivered by the motor to go faster.
That being said, it might be the case that they just calculated the energy needed to move the bicycle without taking the energy efficiency of the digestive system into account.
I just did a quick of my statistics. My bike typically provides an average of 100W in my hilly 28km commute (both ways) that takes about 1h15 minutes. That’s less than 5Wh/km.
I’m using a fairly high setting, too, and judging by the fact that I don’t break a sweat at all, I’m 100% sure I’m not pedaling as hard as I do on a regular bike.
If my calculations are right, at that speed with the numbers from the graph, that would put the energy requirement at about 10 kWh/km. That means that with your motor delivering half of that, the human output actually matches up pretty well with the graph. I’m saying output, because I’m convinced that the graph doesn’t take the calories being burned into account and only shows the work being done to move the bicycle.
I guess it’s hard to gauge an e-bike since they often have a variety of operating modes ranging from progressively higher levels of pedal assist up to full throttle. But that’s fascinating to think that an all-electric ride may actual consume less energy in the grand scheme of things. I had never looked at it that way!
It is interesting, but remember we need food to live anyway, and we need exercise to stay healthy. If we ask used ebikes on max pedal assist to get around, but then go to the gym and pound the treadmill for an hour, what does that do to the numbers? Or if we eat less and burn less energy, but then lose bone density and need more healthcare as we age (just one effect among many of not getting enough exercise)?
Oh for sure, yeah. I have a sedentary office job, so the e-bike commute is my primary source of exercise (particularly after I quit the gym during the pandemic), so I tend to keep the pedal assist low and try to get a workout. There are exceptions though. Sometimes I’m just tired or sore, or it’s really hot with bad air outside, and I elect to go all electric on days like that. It’s nice to have the option!
Of course. But the way it is plotted now also gives a false sense of energy economy.
Maybe there’s another way to compare the data.
An energy-speed plot with multiple curves for the different vehicles comes to mind. Then simply stop plotting that curve when that vehicle is outside of its speed range.
I’m not contesting the notion that the plot is trying to convey; just that it’s not really the right format for visualizing this data.
Interesting. I’ve never owned an electric car, but just guesstimating based on those numbers, my daily commute would cost something like 25 cents in electricity. Not too shabby.
I did buy an ebike a few years back and watched to see how much the bill went up, but frankly never noticed any change. At 2 cents per day, it’s basically a rounding error relative to other electrical usage, so that makes sense to me now.
Energy efficiency and carbon footprint are very different things - pretty sure the carbon footprint of 15 big macs is substantially greater than 1L of gasoline (let alone that of an electric grid producing ~8500 kcal)
A quick googling tells me a burger is about 3kg of CO2 equivalents. 1L of gas seems to be about 2,5kg.
Now if you were to eat local and seasonal food I’d guess you can get more efficient than burning oil.
Edit: As @bjorney correctly pointed out a quick google in the morning, before the brain functions properly kick in, isn’t the best way to produce comments on numbers. I did NOT account for the factor of about 15 that a burger needs to get close the energy stored in a liter of gasoline.
Edit to the edit: Just out of curiosity I did another quick google (please brain, be functioning now) and it seems that to get 8500kcal from oats you need about 2,5kg. This seems to produce about 1kg of co2 equivalents. I am certain that this does not include the amount of co2 the human is expelling in excess by using their muscles instead of a motor, so the whole discussion is probably moot anyways.
Damn, my brain got way to happy about the numbers being so close that I completely overlooked that. I’m gonna defend myself by saying that this was early in the morning ;)
Long story short this figure is just all around bad because it’s conflating energy efficiency with environmental friendliness.
Electric vehicles, despite being greener, are probably less efficient (which is why ICEs are mysteriously absent from this figure), it takes a lot more watts of power to move a 5000 pound car than it does a 2000 pound one). Similar story with biking - based on my Garmin figures, biking is about 22x more energy efficient than driving an ICE car, but the carbon footprint of that energy source is much higher watt-for-watt, so if you eat a meat heavy diet, the bike is barely greener than driving (caveat: I didn’t amortize the footprint of constructing the car, which is a probably a huge deal - if cycling is actually an option for you, your mileage probably isn’t that high).
Granted - you are spot on with oats, if you pick a greener crop like corn you are down to 0.5kg carbon per 1L of gasoline equivalent - as the guy below wrote, biking is a “greener choice” if you are vegan (3-6x less carbon footprint), but at the end of the day, manual transportation is a thing people choose for health or pleasure reasons, or when the distance is so low that other methods don’t make sense. if you are going to try and shame people into doing it out of a sense of environmental responsibility, you shouldn’t need to use dubious math to accomplish that end
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