People don't vote for these kinds of things. They just complain about it and then vote for whichever party shouts the loudest about immigration which, as we all know, is the most important issue on the planet. Nothing could ever be more important
In Japan, it can be cheaper to fly than to take the shinkansen (bullet train), but the trains are much more convenient. No security checks like air travel, no waiting in line for ages, no going out of the way to get to an airport (one of "Tokyo"'s airports is actually a prefecture over in Chiba), etc.
I wish it made sense for me to take bus or train to visit family on the other end of Europe, but it’s both more expensive. Makes me feel half bad about a trip I should enjoy. Why is everything upside down?
Yup, and in the Netherlands the main train company is planning to make it even more expensive on purpose, in order to discourage people from taking the train.
I drive along the A1 near Amersfoort every morning and more cars isn’t really the solution. I’m considering working from home more. Probably will once I’ve worked at this company a little bit longer.
In France it’s pure greed. The government keeps trying to pawn off any public utility that doesn’t generate revenue since that Jupiter wannabe took office. I don’t know how politicians convinced billions of people that public utilities must be profitable…
SNCF is deeply in debt. French Train Travel is very affordable with OuiGo, TER Fares are also quite cheap with discount cards, and for young people TGV Max (79€/Month for unlimited Travel including High Speed) is also a great option. Unfortunately the 4th rail package of the EU will destroy all State Railway Operators forcing to tender out all services starting 2030 This will also lead to cuts of “unprofitable Routes” and generally lead to shitty service as the cheapest always wins. If you want an example look to German regional services which are all tendered out. Every day they are cancellations because someone became sick and they have no reserves. The same with Trains. Most of them travel with reduced capacity, because not all sets work, some are also cancelled for this reason . I really love the EU but this is some very shitty legislation. The current state where the member states could choose wether they want to liberate their rail market or not is much better
And in Paris it could cost you an extra €60 or something if there’s random ticket check and you can’t provide that you have the ticket. As a tourist I’ve seen this myself in Bir-Hakeim Station. Please keep your ticket, don’t throw it away!
That sounds pretty reasonable to be fair. How else are they gonna check your ticket? Though I get how it would be frustrating if there were no ways to book your ticket from your phone or pc, not sure if it’s the case for Paris.
Hi. As someone who are not from Paris or Europe all i could think is that everyone who ride the train will already bought their ticket as they will need it to pass the turnstile, so i often throw the ticket away after checking in at the turnstile.
I’m from Spain and there’s a lot of people jumping the turnstile so, while I understand your point, they still check just in case you jumped. It’s stupid but needs to be done 😐😐
That’s how it is in most places. Or at least the places I have taken trains: Europe, Seattle, Portland, and NYC. Although in NYC they do not check for subway tickets. The regional train definitely checks though.
A checked bag can be had for as little as €20 sometimes. Or just travel with a backpack as “personal item”. Definitely possible to fly for €10. €30-€50 is more common though.
It’s real, many flights are dirt cheap, especially flights to Amsterdam via KLM from neighbouring countries. I remember waaay back in the day when I was trying to get to Russia from Ukraine to see my then online girlfriend, I had an option of going by bus directly or flying through Amsterdam for the same price but a long layover. Like, literally, across all Europe and back on a flight was the same price as a direct bus ride.
Lot of budget airlines sell cheap tickets for the last seats of short hauls in that price range.
In Eastern Europe, it’s a whole thing, people buy a cheap ticket for under 30 EUR there and back anywhere. Think like Budapest to Milan, spend a weekend, maybe not even booking a hotel.
It’s bad for the destination as well, because if you can’t pay for the plane ticket, how are you going to pay for anything else? But you still take your space in the crowd.
If that’s the case then for the purpose of the article the fare for €13 can only mislead. That is, it’s the avg ticket price that matters for comparison to trains.
The environmental problem is that the plane is taking off. If that happens, then it might as well be a fully booked aircraft.
My plane ticket was 1€ a decade ago through Ryanair. Taxes brought it up to 16€ though. I think checking a bag was 20€ and you could check up to a 20kg bag.
In Germany, it’s greed. I remember 18 years ago a train ride to the next city to go to the movies was 1.30 euros. Today it costs 5.80 euros. That’s not inflation, that’s just greed.
Even more obscene is that they used to have a monopoly by law until sometime in the mid-2000s. No other corporation was allowed to compete with Deutsche Bahn, a remnant of Hitler’s agenda to strengthen governmental grip on public transport.
And still they managed to have deficits in every financial quarter.
I don’t think train can compete with a long distance means of transportation that is
1- equally or less time consuming.
2- works very similarly across countries.
3- only needs infrastructure at the start and end stops instead of for the whole journey.
What we need is to figure out a way to use less polluting, carbon neutral or non-polluting fuel for airplanes, and less of it with more efficient designs.
The plane is not that fast. You have to factor in travel to the airport (outside the city), check-in, security gates, boarding, baggage claim on the destination, which can add up to 3h or more per trip. With a train, you start in the city center and just hop on board.
Depends on when long distance starts for you. I’m very much open to take a train across Europe if it’s reasonably priced and convenient, even if it takes considerably longer. Really wouldn’t mind an overnight train either for example, if they weren’t so damn expensive (and constantly booked out).
Anything that’s less than 3-4 hours by plane is fine by me to switch to the train for 8-10 hours imo.
Agree about the long distance being subjective. I live abroad and have a job so for me it’s not an option to use 2 days of my holiday time just to travel back and forth for one visit home. So I definitely mind that it takes considerably longer.
Well 3000 km is about 2h30 by plane. A train that goes 180km/h without any stops will still take 17h. I agree all the check in and travel to the airport definitely sucks, and I’d rather board on a train any day. But even with that nuisance, a regular plane going a typical cruise speed of 900km/h will still leave trains in the dust for anything farther than say 2000 km and make it worth it.
I don’t think train can compete with a long distance means of transportation
That’s true. Trains can compete mid-range, or should be able to compete. With better infrastructure and organization (high speed rail, coordinated timetables, unified booking, …), this range can be extended. There will always be a certain distance after which planes are the better choice.
But we still should invest to push this point further into the distance, to make planes as obsolete as possible. Trains should be the cheapest option between short distance (bus) and long distance (plane). If they are not, we are doing something wrong in creating incentives.
I want to see long distance high speed night trains. I want to see trains riding bumper to bumper. I want to go overnight from Berlin to Oslo. Or Paris up Bucharest. Porto to Utrecht.
Note as well a German company recently brought back the sleeper carriages. When the travel happens overnight while I’m asleep, I tend not to care how long it takes.
Nothing is better than being able to board the train with free luggage allowance and without all the TSA lines, harassment, confiscations, etc. No wasting of my awake time (unlike air travel). Then waking up at the destination is effectively like zero time wasted.
Not Flixbus. It seemed to be a new small startup company who is just dedicated to sleeper trains.. I don’t recall the details but it recently got a spotlight.
At 1st I was baffled by your suggestion that Flixbus would be even a candidate, but then recalled that they operate trains too in some regions.
Yes, night trains are a great option! Also sometimes much cheaper than day trains.
However, on the few night train trips I took, it didn’t feel so comfortable for me. One time, our train had a scheduled stop for several hours in the middle of the night at some station. There were bright lights all around, and other trains moving; a changing and occasionally very loud soundscape. So I was still all mushy the next day.
Some people seem to have very good experiences, others not so. Overall it’s great this option exist, and there is still room for improvement.
To your last point, believe it or not, but planes are getting significantly more efficient. Huge wide-bodies like the 747 are retiring in part because airlines don’t want to lug around 4 engines, when the 787 can do the same trip with 2.
The a320 neo has a much better engine than previous generations, and same thing with the 737 max (crashing problems aside).
Right, so the 737-MAX are very fuel efficient. No argument there. But saying “the parenthetical about ignoring the crashing problems is doing a lot of work in this comment about fuel efficiency” is just nonsense.
All the 3 digit models with a “7” are Boeing. It’s worth noting that #Boeing is an #ALEC member that supports the republican party in the US & lobbies to eliminate & neuter the #EPA as well as fight every environmental protection possible. So regardless of GHG footprint¹, #boycottBoeing.
I say GHG instead of CO₂ because airlines also have non-CO₂ GHG emissions. There was a scandal recently where #Google stopped showing the GHG emissions on their ticketing platform & swapped in CO₂ emissions to downplay the damage.
Ok, apart from the biased article, the price (that sometimes is a bit more for trains than flights) isn’t as much of a problem as the mix and match of railway systems across europe which makes it awfully difficult to get from here to there fast and without a lot of changing trains. Each change is a risk of being late once your train is delayed and then your whole journey is off.
For the love of God, I really tried to find a train connection to Pula from Munich. I really tried. Even thought going through Italy, and taking a ferry from Venice. But it would have required changing trains 6 times or so and would have taken approx. 24 hours, whilst being indeed more expensive - as far as I could tell, since I cannot buy all the tickets at one place. I still feel horrible but I ended up flying there. If I was by myself I would have taken on the trip with the changes. Or considered a coach although all my experiences with coaches sucked so hard. But with a one year old it was just not feasible.
Adam Something has a great video on why trains in Europe are… Not as simple.
Add comment