The last words I had with someone at Pride tonight, someone who I thought was maybe a new friend was - "well, you're not a real woman anyways".
I should have stayed home with my cats and ordered take-out. The gays are just as transphobic as anyone else. Fuck people. I opened myself up and I'm mad I did.
I'm a cis lesbian and I'll punch anyone who's transphobic right in the face.
I also think it's rather sad that we're generalising in an LGBTQ+ space, of all places. Please remember that they want us to be divided because we're stronger when we stick together.
We should be allowed to vent here in an LGBTQ+ space without being tone-policed. I'm sorry (believe me, I'm sorry) that transphobia is a problem in the cis queer community.
He is right tho. You are not a biological woman. Changing hormones, doing expensive surgeries and wearing makeup will never get you where a naturally born biological woman is. It's better to accept who you are
You are not an acceptable person. Changing your tone, doing expensive therapies and sugarcoating your words will never get you where a naturally born human being is. But I see you accepted who you are already.
So what? The topic wasn't about her being a biological woman. It was about her being a woman and whether she was qualified to have an opinion as the woman she is.
She does accept who she is: A woman born in a biologically male body who chose to change her body to fit who she is.
Now if the topic had been something only biological women experience, like menstruation or pregnancy, your argument would have some relevance. But it wasn't. The topic was wether or not to trend towards believing women about rape allegations, a topic where it doesn't matter whether you were born without a Y chromosome.
As a GNC person myself, the worst bigotry I have experienced personally has come from cis gay people. What was said to you was not acceptable. Your identity is not contingent upon the side that you take in an argument. This woman knowingly chose violence, and that stain is on her. It means little, but this internet stranger sees you. We have to care for one another, especially when we disagree.
Wonder if it’s a case of people being discriminated against, so instead of standing in solidarity with their fellow victims they’re looking for a taste of power, of being on the other side.
It does seem depressingly common for formerly disadvantaged people to abandon empathy once they gain a modicum of power. See: the divide and conquer strategy that has been effectively wielded against the working class for all of history.
Yall, just like we’re not a monolith, NTs aren’t either!? I don’t like identity-based generalizations. I also understand the need for minorities to vent, and sometimes it involves harsh language and generalizations they don’t actually believe. And sometimes it’s hard for me to see the line between “this is a vent and I, and the community at large, don’t actually believe that all NTs are inferior people, I just had a frustrating experience with many and want to vent without being tone policed” and “it’s just venting, back off tone policer, nevermind that I actually do truly believe that the filthy NTs are inferior.”
However, either one will drive me, a minority who the space is intended for, out. Wonder if there will ever be a spot for minorities that is both modded to be free of bigotry, but also doesn’t allow the venting.
EDIT: not criticizing the Beehaw neurodivergence community, haven’t looked there yet
Favorite line I have heard in response to this kind of situation -- "I am more woman than you'll ever be and more man than you will ever have" or the other way around. Anyway, modify to suit.
Well, fuck her. I was happy I made a new friend. I was very wrong. Full disclosure: I disagreed with her regarding celebrities and assault allegations. I learned (well I guess I already knew) when I disagree with a cis woman about something - I'm "not a real woman anyways". My identity hinges on being a good little pet for the cis. Fuck that.
(For the record, my first instinct is to believe the alleged victims of sex assualt. I know it takes a lot of courage to come forward. It's just that when large sums of money are involved, I prefer to let the courts decide. How monstrous, and manly, of me).
That sucks to have such an invalidating end to what should be an inclusive day, and it’ll sorry yoy experienced that. Tbh it kind of sounds like the trash took herself out of your life if she’s not able to respo d to a difference of opinion with respect and grace. May you find much better friends than her.
No need to be sorry at all. I think it's important for people to know that actually, a lot of the transphobia women like me face comes not from violent men, but rather other women. At least that's been my experience.
comes not from violent men, but rather other women
Just in case you travel abroad… beware that it might be a cultural thing. In some countries, where men owning women is normalized, “letting a fox into the henhouse” may be reason for directly killing the “fox”. In more civilized countries, it’s the “hens” starting a ruckus when they see “their spaces” getting “invaded”, while men might seem more tolerant only because of “a hole is a hole” mentality.
Tolerance and respect are hard, with a humanity coming from a history of systematic abuse of everyone, by everyone.
Yeah I’ve noticed that as well. I had a very frustrating argument with an old lady about bathroom usages a few weeks ago and it still makes me furious thinking about the stupid shit that she kept on saying.
It’s a bit of a joke, to give (very flimsy) plausible deniablity after saying something that could be seen as encouraging violence. Like someone might say that cops should be shot, in minecraft. know your meme has a good article about it.
Ah, a nuanced opinion. That’s just too much for some people to process. I’m sorry you went through that. Bad enough that they couldn’t accept the difference of opinion, but finding the most painful way to claw at your soul stinks of cruelty to me, perhaps you’re lucky they showed their true colours on day one.
Fair enough on showing true colours sooner rather than later, but last day of Pride and the big bash still feels like cruel timing. I almost never go out to Pride, especially not alone. Should have trusted my usual instinct on that one.
If I were drunk and angry, that position might earn you being called a “pick me,” ngl, but that’s because you’re a woman. Such an opinion is no reason to question your gender identity, because there is no opinion so bad it changes who you are or justifies harming you in that way. Period. You’re a woman, and no dickhead gets to take that from you just because they’re mad.
I’m wondering if the person who called OP not a real woman was coming from a similar place to drunk and angry you.
Most charitably, she probably thinks it’s okay to call what she thinks are “pick me” women “not real women,” because according to her you can never arrive at that opinion unless your worldview is unduly influenced by trying to please men, unless you are actively trying to come off as “on the men’s side” so that some man sees you say that and rates you a little higher in his “dateable or not” scale. No real woman with non-man-pleasing motivations would ever disagree with her on that topic unless the woman was actively trying to get picked by a man. Dismiss all disagreement by namecalling them as “not a real woman.”
Or she probably thinks that having (what she sees as) an extremely harmful opinion justifies hurting the other because hurting them teaches them not to have bad opinions… somehow… Having a “pick me” opinion means your entire gender is fake because non-trans women would never ever once have the Bad Opinion, and trans women are “fake” women who don’t have the Real Lifetime Gender Experience to arrive at the One True Good Opinion.
That ain’t it. We don’t misgender awful cis people, so why are we doing it to trans people? The answer is “to hurt,” but it also has the extra effect of “if you step out of line your identity is no longer valid, trans acceptance is entirely conditional on always having the perfect opinion, otherwise we’ll whip you back into shape with some prime invalidation.” Of making onlooking trans people doubt whether they’re really accepted, whether they pulled out the invalidation to be hurtful and they still are for trans rights, or if they pulled it out because they genuinely think you can’t be trans but are willing to pretend for the nice people and go mask-off when sufficiently angered.
The context gives me terf vibes so I’m going to say the woman may have been thinking something like “If you were a ‘real woman’ you’d have dealt with sexual assault yourself as a victim and would have more empathy.” Which ignores how often trans women are victims and just like, falls apart when you look at things like the scores of cis women still supporting Chris Brown. Men don’t have a monopoly on unfeminist opinions.
It also tells women privileged enough to not have a sexual assault story, like myself, that we must have experienced THIS much suffering to be allowed gender. No woman can ever be free of this, there’s no hope or good in the world whatsoever, every single woman has an assault story (and the ones who don’t simply don’t count as women anymore!). Imagine being in a post-oppression world, except not really because you are denied a gender on account of not suffering enough. About the 2838281st time TERFs try to invalidate trans women and inadvertently whack cis women like myself. If your exclusionary belief always ends up excluding the people you consider “real women” try expanding your definition out to include trans women too 😒
She probably knew what would hurt most and used that. Doesn't help much at the moment, but maybe it takes the tip off. It's shit you lost a potential friend, but at least you lost a hurtful person at the same time.
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