Help with laptop buying decision

I’m looking for a new work laptop and I’d like to jump to Linux at the same time. I was hoping to get some input from here because I’m still undecided!

Maybe some context first : the switch is not urgent. My current machine still works. I’d like to change it because of a few quirks and problems (for me) it has, it will find a happy owner afterwards. As for the job, I’m a dev (mostly Java and web). I need something that can run a few docker containers, multiple instances of intellij, but that’s pretty much it and it’s not a complicated requirement to fill. Also, I’m in Europe.

I’ve been looking mostly at Tuxedo and Framework, with a preference for the later 16 inch model.

Does anybody have experience with Linux support on the framework 16? With, for example, Fedora? Other than that, any recommendation / thing to pay attention to? I have some experience with Linux but it’s been a while since I’ve run it as a desktop os, and my knowledge has never been in depth, so any help will be greatly appreciated :)

nix,
@nix@merv.news avatar

Id go with the framework 13 or the xps14 developer edition which comes with Linux and is heavily tested

Deckweiss,

linux-hardware.org

this resrource was a blessing for me. You can search for laptop models and see exactly what works/doesn’t work under which distro.

pegazz,

Wow thanks! I didn’t know this existed, this is great!

tobistokles,

I have a 1st Gen Framework and don’t recommend it.

Battery life in standby is TERRIBLE, we are talking 40% overnight (after optimizations) and very rarely the notebook wakes up randomly.

The build-quality is better than cheaper laptops, but definitely worse than my old Thinkpad. Although the keyboard is better than many consumer laptops, it feels a lot mushier than my Thinkpad’s. Several keys have lost their cover already and the display hinges are wobbly & feel cheap. I also got small spot with burn-in on the display. After 2 years the Framework looks worse than my 6-year-old X1 Yoga.

Linux support is okay, most things work out of the box. However, it’s far from perfect and absolutely not a First Class experience. For example, there is currently no way to get the most recent BIOS via Linux and apparently we are months away from a solution. In Fedora 39 Silverblue I experience very rare freezes (according to Arch Wiki this is due to Intel and not a Framework-exclusive problem, I still want to mention it).

My next laptop will be a new or used Thinkpad again.

pegazz,

Thanks for the heads-up. I’ve seen that the first gen had a few issues, I understand your frustration. I even saw a solution involving soldering a wire onto the motherboard? My hope is that they got better as they gained experience, and that hardware support on Linux will only imrove with time.

Jezebelley3D,
Jezebelley3D avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    pegazz,

    I’m in Europe, so System76 can quickly become expensive here, with shipping, taxes, duties, etc. Tuxedo would be the alternative (I think they use the same OEM, Clevo, anyway). Thanks for the rec though!

    slembcke,

    Egh. I kinda sorta agree. I had a 10th gen i7 Lemur Pro. It was nice and had excellent battery life. (15 -25 hours as an average range) The screen was a perfectly nice IPS, the keyboard/trackpad were fine (maybe not great), and the speakers were… well… pretty terrible. The software/firmware support for an otherwise generic laptop was great!

    The problem was that I had multiple hardware failures on mine and getting warranty repairs was painful. The 3rd time it happened took several weeks to convince my rep it was a legitimate hardware failure. When he was finally convinced, he said something like “Well, that seems pretty obvious it’s a motherboard failure. What would you like us to do?” The response was obvious. It was under warranty still. I wanted it fixed! By the time it was working again it had taken 9 weeks. (!!!) Less than a year later, it died again. Put a really bad taste in my mouth. :-\ I bought a Framework to replace it.

    Vinegar,
    Vinegar avatar

    I highly recommend Framework laptops for Linux. I have not used the Framework 16, but I can attest that Linux support for the Framework 13 (intel 11th & 12th gen) is excellent. I have used Fedora on the Intel 11th gen and Intel 12th gen, everything worked immediately on a fresh install without any workarounds or issues. Other distros might require a few package installs, but Fedora, Ubuntu, and Ubuntu derivatives should work out-of-the-box without any additional configuration. The Arch Wiki article for the Framework covers pretty much everything you might need to know to have an optimized Linux experience with any distro.

    Aside from Framework's excellent Linux support, I really have to stress how cool and unique it is as a laptop for developers and tinkerers. This thing is literally designed to be opened up, repaired, and modded. All of the internal components are clearly labeled and easily accessible, there's even a little spot inside the laptop chassis just for spare screws in case a screw ever gets lost! Another awesome obscure feature of this laptop is the ability to use a Storage Expansion Card for dual booting. I just plug in the expansion card to boot into Windows, then unplug it and I'm back in Linux. It is absolute bliss compared to Windows and Linux sharing a bootloader.

    I know I'm rambling, but I really could keep going on and on about Frameworks. They truly are unlike any other laptop, in all the right ways.

    pegazz,

    Yeah the proposition of Framework is what draws me to it. Price-wise it’s more expensive than any other alternative, but it’s still quite unique, and it ticks a lot of boxes that other don’t (open-source firmware keyboard on a laptop ? whaaaaa) Your dual boot setup is interesting! How did you manage to get this setup? Is it just a matter of installing windows on the external storage and selecting it as priority when booting? It would be nice to have the option.

    uzay,

    I don’t have a Framework laptop, but I’d assume that the storage expansion modules are seen as regular USB external drives. So if your BIOS has USB as the first priority boot option, it would boot whatever system is installed on there when it is plugged in, and boot the system on the internal storage when it isn’t. I have a setup like that on my laptop with a WindowsToGo installation on an external SSD.

    Vinegar,
    Vinegar avatar

    You nailed it! I used either Rufus, or WinToUSB to install a Windows .iso to the storage card, I have forgotten which tool I used. The storage card is recognized by the computer as a regular USB drive, so I just set the boot priority to boot USB first. Plug it in and turn the computer on to boot Windows, unplug it and turn the computer on to boot Linux.

    I have tried WindowsToGo on other PCs, but it was always too slow to be usable even with high-quality flash drives. The Framework storage cards are very fast (1GB/s read), and the laptop's bus lanes & southbridge do not create a bottleneck, so the OS feels just as responsive as if it were running from the internal SSD for regular desktop usage. However, you should run intensive storage tasks while booted to the internal SSD if you're planning to dual boot this way, because a NVMe SSD is still several times faster than the storage expansion cards.

    BiggestBulb,
    @BiggestBulb@kbin.run avatar

    I don't have any experience with Tuxedo or Framework, so I can't really comment on those 😅

    I have definitely heard Lenovo ThinkPads are great though, and I'm currently rocking a Lenovo Legion Slim 7 which has been fantastic so far (albeit I JUST got it and I'm rolling Windows on it with WSL2 Debian, so not exactly a pure Linux experience).

    bobs_monkey,

    I have a Carbon X1 10th gen, and it is a beast. 32gb ram, and I swapped in a 2tb SSD. Running Arch on it and it’s pretty flawless.

    independantiste,
    @independantiste@sh.itjust.works avatar

    If you don’t want a clevo/tongfang laptop with a custom logo on the lid, look at Framework, Starlabs, Purism, Dell or Lenovo, though the last two don’t offer Linux on most models.

    If you don’t really care about the OEM, but still want a “guaranteed” good Linux experience, then System76, Tuxedo or Slimbook should fit your needs. Just consider that Slimbook and Tuxedo are from Europe so you could get duties if you’re in the US

    bobs_monkey,

    Lenovo supports Linux directly. You can buy it with Ubuntu preloaded, and they also give instructions for you on their website.

    andrew0,
    @andrew0@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    The Framework 13 inch model should be plenty, especially if you want to dev on the go. Much more lightweight and smaller, and you can connect it to external monitors if the screen size is not big enough. Also, you shouldn’t have issues running Linux on either laptops.

    Instead of going for the 16 version, I would use the extra 900-1000 euros (that’s the amount I saw I could save between the two almost maxed-out models) to make a dedicated server or mini-cluster to run your workloads. Deploy Kubernetes or Proxmox on it, and you’ll also get some more practice on it outside work if you want to run stuff for your home lab. That is only if you don’t want to game on your laptop, but I’d still put that money aside to make a desktop.

    pegazz,

    Thanks for the advice! The 16 is probably as overkill as you say, but I’ve come to prefer a larger machine to work on.

    I already have Proxmox installed on a secondhand mini-pc (one of those NUC / thin-client like office machines) and it’s been a great way to (re)learn a few things indeed!

    Joker,

    The usual suspects are ThinkPad T, P or X1, Framework or System76. Some people also like the Dell XPS but I don’t because of the lack of ports. I use a ThinkPad X1 Extreme. It runs great, it’s repairable and there are good premium support options available.

    TCB13,
    @TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

    Want things to work really well and last that way? Get an HP EliteBook (not the latest model) and enjoy.

    NotATurtle,

    The framework 16 is a gaming laptop. The framework 13 should be enough for your needs.

    slembcke,

    Yeah, IIRC the 16 doesn’t have a significantly faster CPU than the 7840U in the 13. If you want a gaming laptop it sounds neat though!

    haych,

    My first choice would be a Framework, second choice System76.

    beta_tester, (edited )

    I haven’t used it but there is fedora.slimbook.com

    just_another_person,

    Framework is QA’d so much exactly for this purpose. Read their dev notes and announcements. Fantastic. You’ll have to wait in line awhile though.

    cmat273,

    Framework would be my first choice if I could afford it. Grab yourself an amd thinkpad from ebay

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