Now there’s a good entry in the man vs. bear saga that explains why I felt so strongly about it.
If a woman says she’s prefer the bear to a man, the men who ARE like the bear and would have her by force if necessary won’t give a damn, but the ones that aren’t, who might be available to form an emotional bond with her, will have their patriarchal wound reinforces and thus be turned off.
So what that statement is really doing is reinforcing the patriarchy. It’s just another way of saying “men are all the same and nothing will ever change that.” It practically guarantees a continuation of the status quo and eliminates all possibilities for healing.
Really? I don’t think it’s reinforcing the patriarchy. I think it’s pretty funny, a satirical commentary on the unfortunate truth that most people don’t feel safe around males. Like, bruh, I’m a dude, but I’d rather see a bear than another man if I was on a solo backpacking trip.
Like, bruh, I’m a dude, but I’d rather see a bear than another man if I was on a solo backpacking trip.
I think you may have a skewed perception of the risks, at least where I live. As someone who is out in the wilds of the Rocky Mountains on a frequent basis I’d much rather wander into another man than a bear. Here in Wyoming Brown Bears, aka Grizzlies, are now mauling or killing multiple people per year during wilderness encounters however I haven’t heard of a single random wilderness encounter where a man attacked or killed someone in at least a decade.
If you are hiking somewhere that only has Black Bears than yeah you are statistically safer with the Bear. If you hike here though you are statistically safer with the man.
OP here, obviously I have no authority but it would be excellent if we could refrain from rehashing any of this debate here. It tends toward discussions that get my posts removed and I like them to stay up. <3
If you can’t hold yourself back, please continue to be respectful and excellent to one another (you are good so far 🙂).
Sorry, I’m not trying to make a factual argument. You are 100% accurate, if I actually came across a bear I would probably be killed. It’s a thought experiment, think along the lines of Schrodeinger’s cat. It’s an unknowable quantity: is this man going to hurt me, is he going to be nice? Is this bear going to maul me, is this bear going to ignore me? Point being, when some people see an unknown male I can understand why some would react as if they came across a large predator in the woods. All hypothetical, but again it’s a social commentary about the deep-seated fear of males. Which is sad.
I’ll talk more about this through dms if you’d like.
It’s all good, I just “outdoor” in a place with a large and growing number of Brown Bears so sometimes I can’t help evangelizing a bit about how dangerous they can be, particularly in the spring and fall. Aside from that I have nothing further to say. 🙂
I’m with you. For my part I am trying to just encourage a space of positivity under these memes, listening to women express their stories of course because that was the original point.
But then once that is said and done, I don’t recommend we ever come back to the bear hypothetical, double down on it, or encourage any man to take it personally. Because yeah while it grabs attention, it’s also rhetorically just very inefficient compared to something as simple as posting bell hooks memes.
bell hooks is amazing. I recommend Feminism is for Everybody for anyone who wants to know what people mean by feminism and especially if you want to learn about intersectionality
Its a short book and worth a read. Also if there a whole chapter about FEMINIST MASCULINITY which is worth a read. Especially if you think feminism isn't for men.
If you like that and want more, I also recommend her book The Will to Change. It is about the same length, but goes into much greater detail about the ills that men, especially marginalized men, experience under patriarchy.
I plan on reading through the PDF someone mentioned and buying the book at some point, and I’m truly not trying to start shit.
I think the best route towards good results is to assume good faith for as long as possible, and to try to meet people where they are rather than attack them for believing the wrong things.
All those caveats said, it’s important to acknowledge that just as the broad category of “men” includes some amount of dangerous men, the broad category of “feminists” includes some amount of people who are to some degree misandrists. People who are not seeking solutions for the good of women or everyone but are instead seeking some form of emotional relief through a form of revenge on members of the general group that has (or they feel has) wronged them.
Sorry, I just feel like most groups tend to ignore bad elements within them. It’s dangerous to assume that absolutely every single person who shares a belief label with you is good. I don’t think anyone on any side talks about it enough.
Misandrists posing as feminists absolutely do exist. I actually lived with a few decades ago, back when women unfairly and even abusively criticizing men was considered more socially acceptable or even “cool” where I lived, and they were awful people. By definition, though, they’re not actually feminists and are thankfully uncommon amongst anyone familiar with and practicing feminism. It’s antithetical.
It’s kind of like people who don’t know much about socialism that tell everyone they’re socialists because they are in favor of government safety nets. Many people don’t actually know what socialism is (nor feminism, for that matter), so they don’t know these people are full of shit when they make these claims.
Which, notice how bell hooks’ book isn’t titled “Femin_ists_ Are for Everybody”.
Human beings are flawed to shit and no group or individual (not even bell hooks) should be put on a pedestal. Rather, it’s about finding the language and behaviors that do the most good at bringing equity and dignity for everyone.
(PS if you read up on feminist theory you get the added bonus of now being able to call tf out of the so-called feminists who uphold the patriarchy under a phony name. With peace and love. 😉)
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