Why the Proud Boys' sentences matter: They're scaring the rest of MAGA straight

At the sentencing hearings for the five Proud Boys convicted for some of the most serious crimes related to the January 6 insurrection, the crocodile tears were flowing. Perhaps hoping for mercy from the Donald Trump-appointed federal judge, Timothy Kelly, one member of the neo-fascist gang after another claimed to have seen the error of their ways and promised to walk a better path from here on out.

Dominic Pezzola, who had joined the group only weeks before the January 6 attack, declared himself “a changed and humbled man” ready to return to a quiet life as an apolitical father and partner to his girlfriend. Joseph Biggs, who was functionally second in command of the Proud Boys on the day of the riot, claimed, “I was seduced by the crowd” before claiming that he’s “so sorry.” Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio claimed to be “profusely sorry” and called the cops he sicced his gang on “heroes.”

It doesn’t matter if the Proud Boys are remorseless.

“I’m done with politics, done with peddling lies for other people who don’t care about me,” said Pennsylvania-based Proud Boy Zachary Rehl, while wiping away tears. “There is no excuse for what I did,” Ethan Nordean declared.

There’s plenty of reason to be skeptical of a single word of remorse offered by any of these men, however.

Pezzola, after getting sentenced to 10 years, raised his fist in the air and yelled “Trump won!” While the other Proud Boys were less dramatic, it was also not so hard to see how few, if any, genuinely feel bad about what they did. After being sentenced, Biggs called into a vigil held by pro-insurrectionists outside the jail and declared that his 17-year sentence was “insanity,” even though it was half what prosecutors had asked for. “They can kiss my ass. We’re still fighting all the way to the end,” he told the crowd, imploring them to “never give up.” He also called into “Infowars” to insist, “We didn’t do anything wrong.”

As Brandi Buchman of Emptywheel, who has been covering the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers trials from the beginning, pointed out, Nordean’s pleas for mercy were flat-out dishonest. He kept insisting had only shown up “to keep people out of trouble and keep people safe,” and that he was only guilty of a failure to “deescalate.” That’s a lie, as evidence showed he not only egged people on before the attack but that he was texting his fellows about plotting for “absolute war” in the days after. Similarly, Rehl has lied throughout this process. He lied on the stand, saying he didn’t pepper spray cops, until video evidence was produced showing him doing it. Even after being found guilty, Buchman notes, “Rehl continued to mock proceedings and not just that, but lie about them” to far-right media outlets.

Meanwhile, Tarrio’s lawyers continued to push silly lies, such as the claim that Tarrio was there to “fight antifa,” despite all the evidence showing his intent was to block the counting of electoral votes.

The Trump-appointed judge was skeptical, reminding Tarrio many times that he told the Proud Boys “don’t f*cking leave” during the riot:

Tarrio’s sentence of 22 years — so far, the longest of any January 6 insurrectionist — speaks to how skeptical the judge was of his “remorse.”

This lack of real contrition is the norm with insurrections top to bottom, from Trump to the lowliest window-smasher. The Capitol riot wasn’t the result of misguided people who just needed to be set straight. These folks are fanatics who lie with ease in service of their goal, which is toppling democracy. It’s dispiriting to realize they aren’t going to give up, no matter how destructive their obsession turns out to be. Trump and his minions have egos that are way too big to sincerely admit they were wrong, no matter how much they stand to lose by being stubborn.

It would be nice if these men would reflect on how they lost their way, but the good news is that we don’t need their penitence. Punishment is enough, especially when it comes to what really matters, which is deterrence. There’s ample reason to believe that the prosecution of the Capitol rioters — and increasingly of the coup leadership — is having the desired effect. MAGA America may still quietly wish that January 6 would have worked, but they are also showing signs that they’re unwilling to try again, for fear of ending up in handcuffs.

This lack of real contrition is the norm with insurrections top to bottom, from Trump to the lowliest window-smasher.

That’s most evident in how little violence there’s been in response to Trump being indicted on 91 felony charges in four different jurisdictions. Trump has been out there pathetically begging his followers, in unsubtle ways, to riot or commit acts of terrorism against people who are prosecuting him. His followers haven’t even really shown up in significant numbers to protest. At every arraignment, the most he’s gotten is a few relatively harmless cranks.

We know this is due to cowardice and not any real loss of support with the MAGA base because polling shows GOP voters still back Trump as their presidential nominee by wide margins. Mostly, this is petulance, as those voters refuse to admit liberals were right about him all along. And, unfortunately, the people involved in holding Trump legally accountable — prosecutors, judges, and even grand jury members — have also been subject to threats and abuse.

But what we’re not seeing is many people who are willing to risk their own safety or freedom to lash out for Trump. The people making threats are doing so from anonymous forums, where they think their identity will be concealed from authorities. Or, in the case of the woman who threatened federal judge Tanya Chutkan, after allegedly drinking too much to be in her right mind.

Republicanism has long been about recasting selfishness as a virtue. While that’s helpful in justifying bullying behavior, it also makes it hard to convince people to take personal risks in the name of fascist ideology. Most of them are content shaking their fist at Fox News, rather than do something foolish that risks prison time. Even those that broke windows on January 6 seemed to do so because they were dumb enough to think they’d get away with it.

This fear of consequences could restrain not just the violence, but other future schemes to overturn elections. After a couple of years of getting away with it, people who agreed to be fake electors for Trump are starting to get arrested. And rather than be good soldiers for Trump, their fingers are starting to shakily emerge, pointed straight at their leader. As Kyle Cheney and Josh Gerstein report for Politico, three fake electors in Georgia, after being charged in a RICO case alongside Trump, “recently said in court filings that nearly all of the charges they face were the result of instructions from Trump and his lawyers.” They may not be ready to turn state’s witness. But already that’s three people who won’t be answering the call next time a Trump lackey asks them to forge paperwork to try to steal an election.

Pezzola likely told himself a story about how courageous he was, pumping his fist and yelling, “Trump won!” In reality, the gesture only underscored how pathetic he and the other Proud Boys are. They lie like sniveling babies to the judge, feigning remorse in an impotent effort to get mercy. The defiant face shown to the MAGA crowd is play-acting, done only when they think there will be no added consequences for doing it. But after their behavior at the sentencing hearings, there can be no doubt that they’d do things differently if they had another chance. Not because they sincerely wish to be better people, which they clearly don’t. But because punishment works as a deterrence. It’s also why it’s so important for Trump to be tried in a timely fashion. Nothing will scare the MAGA hordes straight like seeing Dear Leader take the fall for his various crimes.

CrabAndBroom,

IMO this is why it’s super important that the Republicans, especially Trump, don’t win the next election (even more so than usual.) There are already literal nazis outside Disney Land, the absolute last thing anyone needs is some dickhead pardoning the Proud Boys and emboldening the far right even further.

cogman,

Yup. You look at the nazi rise to power and there’s a TON of similarities that make this really unsettling.

Republicans cannot be trusted. They’ve been compromised by fascists.

GarbageShoot,

even more so than usual

It’s interesting how it’s more urgent than usual every time

Flaps,

How do you see the dems stopping the rise of fascism? Not asking in bad faith, it’s just that the things you describe are happening under a democratic president.

The sentencing of these proud boys truly is a good thing, don’t get me wrong (but we must also add that their convictions only came after threatening the state, not the threatening of marginalized people). The rise of fascism however isn’t stopped with this ruling. The conditions that foster it aren’t adressed.

What do you think the democrats should do after an electoral victory in 2024 to achieve this?

Adkml,

I’m not going to lecture anybody on voting for dems but the bar is so low that “what are they gonna do to stop the rise of fascism” they aren’t going to pardon all of them and embolden them. I don’t think they’ll ever do anything to really meaningfully oppose them but not pardoning them and showing people there’s literally no consequences from it is the least most bad option.

reverendsteveii,

This. Fuck a liberal but at Dem rallies no one chants about how I should be murdered.

GarbageShoot,

It seems like you’re still fucking liberals then, and not in a derisive way

reverendsteveii,

I do not volunteer to be sacrificed for your ideological purity.

GarbageShoot,

I am encouraging you to be honest, not to sacrifice yourself, though if you think my complaint with the dems is “ideological purity” then you clearly don’t understand why liberals are so terrible to begin with.

silent_water,
@silent_water@hexbear.net avatar

the dems are in power now. what are they doing to stop the on-going trans genocide?

spaceghoti,

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by “dems are in power now”? Are you saying they have complete and unfettered control over the entire government to do as they wish?

silent_water,
@silent_water@hexbear.net avatar

I’m saying they hold the executive and a branch of congress. how are they using it?

spaceghoti,

As best they can. Are you saying they can take unilateral action without the full support of the House of Representatives? What do you think they could be doing that they’re not?

silent_water,
@silent_water@hexbear.net avatar

you should read how the republicans plan to avoid congress in order to accomplish their aims the next time they seize the white house. and also how fast the dems are moving right on trans issues.

spaceghoti,

I am fully aware of how Republicans have abandoned democracy in order to accomplish their goals. And I have no doubt that Democrats are being spineless about trans issues. But I asked a very specific question that, given your complaints, you ought to be able to answer easily. Without control of both houses of Congress as well as the Oval Office, what could the Democrats be doing that they aren’t?

2Password2Remember,

reddit moment

Death to America

Adkml,

Yea I’m basically at the point where I don’t think things will get better under a democrat but a lot of people far more vulnerable to fascists then me have talked about preferring to not have the president using them as a scapegoat everyday.

Although as somebody who lives in the boonies all the chuds around me get way more fired up and antagonistic when there’s a dem president. There’s a shitload of flags telling me to go fuck myself on the way to work and the numbers increased in the last couple years.

Although it has been interesting to take the temperature of your average chud by checking to see if the one trump/ DeSantis flag is still up.

CrabAndBroom,

I mean honestly I think the dems being in power is kind of like sticking a band-aid on a gunshot wound at this point, but the Republicans in power is like treating it with… more gunshots or something lol. I think the US needs pretty fundamental change to actually fix anything substantial, but I don’t think that’s realistically going to happen anytime soon. Not trying to “lesser of two evils” it or anything, I just meant that the first step is to probably to shut the nazis down.

CatoPosting,
@CatoPosting@hexbear.net avatar

to shut the nazis down.

And are the dems taking meaningful action to do this? From where I’m sitting, I’d say they are not as the fash is only gaining steam under the current administration.

America delenda est.

GarbageShoot,

But the Nazis aren’t getting shut down, and we have a Dem president already. Clearly something other than red/blue elections are needed to shut Nazis down, as history hopefully helps demonstrate.

Adkml,

Right but all those other things get shit down immediately, its just the harm reduction argument again.

If the options are do nothing, elect the fascists who want to murder Trans people, or elect useless libs who aren’t actively calling for the execution of trams people seems like one of those options is preferable even if still shitty.

So I guess I’d turn the question around, what are the better alternatives to shut this shit down at this point.

Again not arguing that anybody should feel like voting for libs is gonna solve anything but if it means the people literally explicitly calling for violence against minorities have slightly less direct access to governmental power that seems like the least worst option available at this point.

maniajack,

Republicanism has long been about recasting selfishness as a virtue.

Great line

SoylentBlake,

It started with Reagan and the rise of Neo-liberalism

Every president we’ve had since has been neo-liberal. It’s what Clinton meant when he said he was a “third way” democrat.

Obama promised change but then nothing changed. He got us out of the Great Recession, sure, but that was cuz he loosened the rules on corporate property ownership, and look at us now, with corporations buying entire neighborhoods to rent out. They actively hold houses empty rather than reduce the rents, while financing against any efforts to build more “missing middle” housing or density of any kind.

That’s a big fucking poisoned pill if you ask me. Biden’s done alright. Sandbagging the railroad workers was/is bullshit but, I guess we’re back to the status quo.

I just don’t think it’ll ever get better than this in America. Not with the law how it is now, and not while we play the NeoLiberal game. Neo-lib, or Corporatocracy, is just a stop on the road to Authoritarianism or Fascism.

Look at the organizational structure of a corporation. An hierarchy to the CEO. That’s exactly how the world will look like underneath their thumb. There’s no other option, you can’t make applesauce from a bag of oranges.

Techno+democracy=a further dilution of power. And I will always, always, support the dilution of power to the masses.

There’s no reason we can’t vote on individual bills ourselves. We have the tech. We just need to remove entrenched power.

TheAnonymouseJoker,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

Obama did not get USA out of Great Depression. China did. Stop fabricating non-canon history as canon to appease yourself. Obama bombed the fuck out of countries instead, and was just a diversity card for the Deep State.

SoylentBlake,

Ok. You’ve got my interest. How exactly did China fix our economy? Any specific laws or bills they passed that I missed?

Lay it out for me. If I’m wrong and you’re right, I’ll admit it, idgaf what other ppl think about me, I just want to be truthful as much as possible

TheAnonymouseJoker,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

archive.is/oPyW9

China bailed out USA with $700B during the post Wall Street crisis. The collapse will be evident this time because China got stabbed in the back ever since, and now the banks are collapsing one by one, with no one to help. USA only has Europe as friend, and Europe itself is struggling, and Germany and France, seeing the fate of Europe, are trying to befriend China.

SoylentBlake,

Looks like China prepaid for Pearl Harbor.

How else do you rationalize giving corrupt bankers more money? You know how they use it…what else do you expect to happen?

TheAnonymouseJoker,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

China prepaid for Pearl Harbor… WAT? Are you just building up any kind of BS reasons to not admit China’s benevolence towards USA?

SoylentBlake,

No man. But I’m not naive enough to believe benevolence without strings attached. Altruism only exists as a definition at the end of a spectrum, not in reality. It’s a parameter, not a real thing. Let’s assume that once again, just like in 2008, the bankers fuck up the American economy, that in conjunction with BRICS; the value of the dollar tanks.

What happens when a bank is considered suspect? A bank run. Everybody comes trying to collect.

So China comes calling for it’s money, how do you think it gets paid? With another IOU? When China has 55million more extra fighting age men than women? Naw bro. It’s pay up, now.

Historically, that’s loss of land or war. Or both. But if the dollar is dead in the water, so it’s paying our military, so so are we.

He who controls Pearl Harbor controls the North Pacific. It’s a perfect deep water harbor, countries are lucky to have a SINGLE deep water harbor, America has them in spades.

Honestly if the dollar collapses, we’d be lucky if losing Hawaii would be enough

TheAnonymouseJoker,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

China only has a couple reasons it helped USA for, besides benevolence – that its business partner would continue to thrive, so that China can also benefit from that mutual business partnership, and that there are a lot of shared US/Chinese scholars between the countries, aiding each other in academia. None of these cooperative reasons seem like they are that far from absolute altruism.

You may perhaps be wrong in assuming China possesses the same kind of greedy traits as USA does. No country in human history has been as self-obsessed and greedy as USA has. And this assumption only seems fair, seeing how railroad was built in USA by Chinese workers, and a very high proportion of US academia, research papers and technological foundation has been built upon Asians, who only went to USA for the prospect of job and money. They all still are Asians inside, regardless of being Americans on the citizenship papers.

Sean,
@Sean@liberal.city avatar

@SoylentBlake @maniajack direct democracy isn't anywhere close to a panacea and doesn't address the neoliberal mindvirus that you identify as the root cause. Individuals voting on legislation won't be much better than the representative "democracy" we have now, with most of the adult population determining their vote on tribalism not any effort to take a deep dive understanding in the content of the legislation. We'd end up at Idiocracy before fascism but that's a mob of dictators instead of one

D61,

Each of these folks is now a hero in the eyes of MAGA enthusiasts. They’ve been martyred after a fashion. They’ll be able to generate a steady flow of cash for probably a solid decade whether behind bars or released.

Maybe they will be pissed that Trump and the rest of the really fashy right wingers in the USA political establishment have left them out to hang, but the next time a right wing populist gets them all riled up they will know to go full force and not waver like they did during January 6. They got to experience first hand what “going halfway” gets you and will learn from it.

beef_curds,
@beef_curds@hexbear.net avatar

They’ll probably get a good cash stream at first. But I’m not sure most people in America have enough object permanence to care about these folks after a few years. Won’t they be like a Reality Winner, where almost no one remembers them a few years later except as a trivia answer at trivia night?

D61,

Not saying these people are going to be millionaires… But they’ll be able to make the rounds on right wing radio, local church speech circuits, all the neo fash militia groups that are around and be probably be able to have a nice safety net that most of the rest of us won’t have when we need it.

CannotSleep420,

No more half measures Walter.

M68040,
@M68040@hexbear.net avatar

Like, seriously, the answer to “If you actually punish them they’ll become a martyr” is to punish all the people they become martyrs to in turn. Pretty simple stuff frankly

D61,

I’m not saying that they shouldn’t get punished, hurt them any way possible, they’re the enemy and fair game. But I don’t think this is going to finish them. And how long before the libs decide that “the government is going too far” and stop supporting the judicial attempts to punish these people? How much mileage can they get from the schadenfreude before it gets boring? I’d imagine that once that happens, Dems won’t be able to get as much juice for their fundraising efforts over this and prosecutions will start happening less and less.

And the people that were sitting on top of the walls cheering them on, have gotten to walk away pretty much free from all serious punishment. In a better country, this might make some lights come on in the old thinkin’ box that their leaders are mostly grifters and stop supporting them… but… if the polls are anything to pay attention to, Trump is as popular as ever and he’s the only one even remotely getting into some legal trouble.

I’m hoping that all the fashy TeaParty types stabbing each other in the backs over crumbs might have some negative effects on the disparate fascist groups organizing with each other… but I’ve got to admit that its most cope than hope at this point.

reddig33,

Doubtful. These are the same idiots who yell “trump won!” when being hauled off after sentencing. They haven’t learned a thing. Look at Mike Huckabee’s war mongering quotes that came out today.

NotMyOldRedditName,

You mean his seditious tweets?

AOCapitulator,
@AOCapitulator@hexbear.net avatar

And the evidence for them changing their positions at all is…. That trump is leading the primary again and the GOP is doing the same fuckin shit but arguably MORE?

puttputt,

Dominic Pezzola, who had joined the group only weeks before the January 6 attack, declared himself “a changed and humbled man” ready to return to a quiet life as an apolitical father and partner to his girlfriend.

Pezzola, after getting sentenced to 10 years, raised his fist in the air and yelled “Trump won!”

Hmm…

shiveyarbles,

Fuck around and find out, fucking traitors

IHaveTwoCows,

deleted_by_author

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  • Franzia,

    Don’t come for freedom of speech. Oh and you forgot Section 230. I believe these changes would not genuinely make America a better place.

    IHaveTwoCows,

    Absolutely restrict fascist media. I have heard every one of the arguments against it and they all suck. Unregulated free speech is a fucking disgraceful failure and gave us fascists and fascism. You’re not “shining light on the cockroaches”; you are normalizing genocidal ideology. I cant help but notice that radical right wing violence has been rising ever since Rush Limbaugh went on the air.

    silent_water,
    @silent_water@hexbear.net avatar
    Farman,

    In authoritarian north korea the goverment jails peaceful protestors…

    tomatopathe,

    How is that related to this?

    spaghettiwestern,

    You are a bald-face liar to suggest that January 6th was a peaceful protest.

    IHaveTwoCows,

    deleted_by_author

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  • ThereRisesARedStar,
    AOCapitulator,
    @AOCapitulator@hexbear.net avatar

    Fuckin what?

    AyyLMAO, (edited )

    deleted_by_author

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  • Farman,

    The idea is that if similar senteces were given to similar protests in north korea or iran or russia etc. There would be huge outrage in the mainstream press calling them authoritarian and totalitarian and so on.

    And since repression in the us is a lot more common than exagerated stories on its enemies that those countries are not nearly as bad as the us.

    HawlSera,

    God I certainly hope that’s true.

    420blazeit69,

    After being sentenced, Biggs called into a vigil held by pro-insurrectionists outside the jail and declared that his 17-year sentence was “insanity,” even though it was half what prosecutors had asked for. “They can kiss my ass. We’re still fighting all the way to the end,” he told the crowd, imploring them to “never give up.” He also called into “Infowars” to insist, “We didn’t do anything wrong.”

    No one has been scared straight here. The ones who got got are martyrs to the cause and the ones who flip are traitors or plants.

    They’ll either be more careful next time or they’ll be just as sloppy but convince themselves it’ll work out, because this time is different.

    PuppyOSAndCoffee,

    No doubt. It hasn’t hit home…yet: the American public is unhappy with THEM.

    So, for now, they are deluding themselves with magical thinking that a pardon is in their future. When it’s 2030 & their ass is still stuck in jail, and nobody gives a shit about whatever petty grievances they thought they had … then, and only then, will it sink in: it wasn’t worth it, and they wasted whatever platform they thought they built on a cause that used them like the tools they are.

    420blazeit69,

    The American public isn’t unhappy with them, though. Republicans are at worst annoyed and the large segment of non-voting/non-political people aren’t invested either way. It’s Democrats who are unhappy with them, but they already knew that.

    then, and only then, will it sink in: it wasn’t worth it, and they wasted whatever platform they thought they built

    If this comes to pass it still has nothing to do with “scaring the rest of MAGA straight.” At best you’ll have these assholes crying into their pillow in prison, forgotten by any significant movement outside.

    Then there’s the possibility that they never get pardoned but become martyrs/celebrities on the right (already happening), or the possibility that Trump wins in 2024 and they do get pardoned. Again, nothing here to dissuade the broader MAGA movement.

    PuppyOSAndCoffee,

    MAGA will go the way of 2004 George Bush voters; sure, he was elected, but try and find someone who admitted they helped him to his second term. "Oh no, I didn’t vote, I voted independent, I … " sure buddy.

    “Republicans are at worst annoyed” – read what Pence has to say about that, alongside GOP senators + congresspeople who were cowering next to Democrats, wondering if that day was going to be their last. The killing of cops, the destruction and storming of the federal government, the strong arm of a private policy over foundations of democracy … that did not set well with the voting electorate. NeoNazis? Sure, they ate it up.

    The guy who owns his own plumbing outfit and has three other plumbers working for him? That did and does not sit well, not at all.

    Honestly, what Trump showed is that there is a thirst for politicians to reach out to issues that the majority cares about, and this majority doesn’t see identity politics as helping them. They/them, black lives matter, even MeToo, none of that shit is on the agenda of most Americans. People want to hear- we are helping protect your way of life, the life of your mother and father that you are trying to pass onto your son and daughter. That’s all Trump did, plus the worst overtones imaginable, despite having zero ability to deliver, which didn’t matter as he had zero intention of trying.

    Adkml,

    “Republicans are at worst annoyed” – read what Pence has to say about that, alongside GOP senators + congresspeople who were cowering next to Democrats, wondering if that day was going to be their last.

    And then when asked he said he’d still vote for hum if he was the candidate.

    Im not sure how you haven’t figured out to recognize performative outrage from republicans at this point.

    PuppyOSAndCoffee,

    good point. I still think when 10 MAGA 4 LIFE types go into the voting booth come the general election, Trump is not going to get 10 votes. He may not get 10 votes in the primary.

    Sphere,
    @Sphere@hexbear.net avatar

    MAGA is the 2004 Bush voters, my friend. Did you forget that Karl Rove engineered a win in Ohio by getting gay marriage on the ballot? Now those same hogs are squealing about “groomers” and attacking drag events. They didn’t go away before, and they’re not going to go away now.

    soumerd_retardataire, (edited )

    five Proud Boys convicted for some of the most serious crimes

    You’re all fucking crazy, they didn’t have any power to stage a coup or topple democracy you morons. They simply entered a building !
    You can’t all sincerely believe that they were going to achieve anything by entering the Capitol, the historical place to have manifestations ?
    Political prisoners aren’t only people whose ideology you agree with, you’re sending people who didn’t hurt anyone ^(o.m.g., he pepper sprayed a cop) to almost a decade in jail, sometimes fathers&mothers, am i living in a parallel universe ?

    correcthorsedickbatterystaple,

    am i living in a parallel universe ?

    ...sounds like it

    felixthecat,

    Yes they could have. If they went to the right chamber and started killing representatives or at least taking them prisoner they could have. All it would take is a smart, motivated, evil leader to take the reigns and that day could have ended very differently.

    Thankfully those idiots had no one leading them. But I do wonder why Russia or China didn't exploit the situation to their advantage.

    TheAnonymouseJoker,
    @TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

    But I do wonder why Russia or China didn’t exploit the situation to their advantage.

    Let me guess… BECAUSE they might not be as evil as USA stuffs in the heads of you people everyday on TV?

    Shit, this must either be a Eureka moment, or maybe a result of non-poisoned minds speaking sensible things.

    soumerd_retardataire, (edited )

    Or they would have exchanged their arguments like the civilised people we’re supposed to represent. If they killed your representatives that would be worth a decade or more in jail i suppose, but they didn’t, they simply entered a building and are accused of having attempted to overthrow the government, an accusation that no one can take seriously(, and yet).
    Russia, China, or the many other sanctioned countries, can rejoice on their medias, who are either banned or not read by the “free world”, but otherwise, i don’t see how they could profit from it. More importantly, they wouldn’t be glad that their enemy has problems if we were allied, this world f*cking stinks, and shouldn’t.

    I_Has_A_Hat,

    Ah yes, the people literally smearing shit on the walls were certainly just looking for a nice, civilized argument with their representatives.

    soumerd_retardataire,

    I agree, but what i clumsily pointed at is the lack of debate, i see three options :

    • We could already back then prove without a doubt that the elections weren’t rigged, and couldn’t have been, but that’s not the case. If it was possible, then we could’ve reminded them of the safety of our mechanism, but even then we should still invite opponents so they can point at imperfections in order to improve it ;
    • We can’t currently prove that the elections weren’t rigged, and that’s a problem that we should acknowledge if we want to prevent such refusal to accept an electoral defeat in the future, it’s alarming that we don’t intend to change anything, we must be more re-assured that rigging elections is impossible, and not double-down with machine voting instead of a cctv which could record every single vote opened and be inside the box as well and broadcast live, that’s an example. There have also been proofs of multiple votes under a false identity, and i wrote once a long text on how we could ensure a safety, but my point is that these solutions exist and that you’re not taking the steps to ensure an impossibility of cheating, i could say that it’s suspicious but i’ll only say that it’s a way to ensure more doubts for the next elections ;
    • And the third possibility would be that we’ll never be able to prove that elections aren’t rigged, but i don’t believe in this, one would need to not have thought about the solutions in order to believe this.
    correcthorsedickbatterystaple,
    mrnotoriousman,

    You're free to go ahead and look at all the evidence presented for the proud boys and oath keepers. It's all right there but that would pop your right wing bubble. No one gets sedition charges for entering a building. And we all watched it live on TV, most people take what happened very seriously.

    soumerd_retardataire,

    If i’m taking the first link i found, here’s the accusations :

    • conspiring to oppose by force the lawful transfer of presidential power
    • those who attempted to undermine the workings of American democracy will be held criminally accountable
    • conspired before, during, and after the siege of the Capitol to use force against their own government to prevent the peaceful transfer of power
    • seditious conspiracy
    • To prepare for the attack on the Capitol, Tarrio and the other leaders of the Ministry of Self Defense established a chain of command, chose a time and place for their attack, and intentionally recruited others who would follow their top-down leadership and who were prepared to engage in physical violence if necessary.
    • At 2:11 p.m., Pezzola smashed open a window, allowing the first rioters to enter the Capitol as Biggs and those with him entered close behind.
    • Tarrio’s conduct constituted an official act of terrorism
    • In the 31 months since Jan. 6, 2021, more than 1,106 individuals have been arrested

    Feel free to read the article to see if i forgot something, it wasn’t informative. No one can honestly say that they were going to overtake the country, and yet.

    The second link is entirely on the charges but is even less informative. Believing that they had any chance to overthrow the United States of America is crazy talk, yet lives were/are ruined while everyone claps as if it make sense. Please find me more arguments from your side if you believe to be on the right side.

    queermunist,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    The corrolary is that pardons from a Republican victory would vindicate them, so uh

    Etterra,

    Maybe they are, but not all of it. There’s always the ones that double down.

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