Mary625,
@Mary625@mstdn.social avatar

In 1968 Nixon made sure the Vietnam war continued and the peace talks crumbled so he could win the election. Tens of thousands more died because of that.

In 1980 Reagan made sure the hostages in Iran were held for months longer so he could win an election. He then sold arms to Iran. God knows how many died because of that

In 2024, trump stopped a border deal and backed Abbot so trump could win an election.

Guess it just never ends

davevolek,
@davevolek@mastodon.social avatar

@Mary625

It won't end until we build a new democracy.

Scotts,

@davevolek @Mary625 If the first democracy is dismantled because of a whim, the second will have zero credibility.

Mary625,
@Mary625@mstdn.social avatar

@Scotts

Is it really a democracy if what I posted happens? It's an oligarchy

@davevolek

davevolek,
@davevolek@mastodon.social avatar

@Mary625 @Scotts

"Is it really democracy . . . ?"

Good question!

If we were to our current system on a 1 to 10 democracy scale, it would be a 5. Although better than 1, we need to move that 5 higher. But the USA is going backwards.

We need a new way.

Mary625,
@Mary625@mstdn.social avatar

@davevolek @Scotts

I wouldn't even go as high as 5. 70% of the citizens don't want either candidate but we're given no choice. When money talks, there's no democracy

davevolek,
@davevolek@mastodon.social avatar

@Mary625 @Scotts
Wherever the USA is, it is going lower. I think we can agree on that.

In Russia, you and I could go to jail or the Ukrainian front for talking like this. The USA is not at that level . . . . . . . yet.

We need to get the big money out of politics. My TDG takes care of that problem.

violetmadder,
@violetmadder@kolektiva.social avatar

@davevolek @Mary625 @Scotts

You can bet we're already on a list somewhere for talking like this.

Time will tell if we ultimately get black bagged for it. What's to stop them?

davevolek,
@davevolek@mastodon.social avatar

@violetmadder @Mary625 @Scotts

If they are keeping a list, I've been on it since 2000. Suggesting western democracy needs to totally replaced by a new democracy will scare people in high places.

If the TDG movement grows, I am ready to go to prison.

Mary625,
@Mary625@mstdn.social avatar

@davevolek @violetmadder @Scotts

Same. But for me it would be in the 1970s. I'm old

violetmadder,
@violetmadder@kolektiva.social avatar

@Mary625 @davevolek @Scotts

Everybody who's shown their face at a protest basically ever.

There's always a cop filming the crowd for that purpose.

davevolek,
@davevolek@mastodon.social avatar

@Mary625 @violetmadder @Scotts

1970s. I went into party politics in 1986, trying to change the world that way. Didn't work.

You might be interested in my article "Give Young People Some Hope"

https://www.tiereddemocraticgovernance.org/blog_details.php?blog_cat_id=33&id=159

cakeisnotalie,

deleted_by_author

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  • davevolek,
    @davevolek@mastodon.social avatar

    @cakeisnotalie @Mary625 @violetmadder @Scotts

    Revolutionaries have a rather poor record of creating society we would like to immigrate to.

    trabex,
    @trabex@newsie.social avatar

    @violetmadder @davevolek @Mary625 @Scotts

    Probably the fact that they collect so much information, they have difficulty sorting through it all. Even when they do, they don't always make good choices out of it. What gives them the most pause is press backlash, and the notion that anybody can upload stuff to social media where a reporter can find it.

    violetmadder,
    @violetmadder@kolektiva.social avatar

    @trabex @davevolek @Mary625 @Scotts

    Yes.

    For a long time I've figured that our best defense is there just being too many of us for them to keep track of us all, and that all this data they're collecting is too vast to effectively analyze.

    Although, these "AI" large language models give us some clue as to where they're at with that.

    Battle lines are being drawn. We'll be targeted for much, much worse things than advertising. Keep an eye on your friends and favored media sources-- it's getting harder to see, in the midst of covid isolation and the growing volume of mindless spam muddying the waters, who might be getting silenced.

    trabex,
    @trabex@newsie.social avatar

    @violetmadder @davevolek @Mary625 @Scotts

    As a reporter, I'm well aware of how bad things can get, and are getting. Anytime you want to form any kind of solidarity group, there will always be someone in government wanting to crush it.

    The trick is to always have press coverage if you fear things may go to crap.

    Daniel Ellsburg was just a guy who did some things, but he was able to bring down a president.

    weilawei,
    @weilawei@mastodon.online avatar

    @trabex @violetmadder The US government in particular tends to simply have the police or FBI assassinate civil rights leaders.

    If you're serious about civil rights, they're planning to murder you if you are successful. Probably best to plan for that eventuality.

    violetmadder,
    @violetmadder@kolektiva.social avatar

    @weilawei @trabex

    Of course these days they'd rather discredit and/or co-opt you first. Much more effective that way.

    Mary625,
    @Mary625@mstdn.social avatar

    @davevolek @Scotts

    Oh, I wouldn't give us a 1 but we're not at a 5 imo. Yes, I realize there are places that are less free. But never forget we have legalized enslavement, women don't have equal rights, in fact we aren't even close, we're chattel, People of Color, especially Black men, are far from free. In addition to what we've already said.

    And, just because some places are worse doesn't mean we're good. It's not supposed to be "love it or leave it."

    davevolek,
    @davevolek@mastodon.social avatar

    @Mary625 @Scotts

    If we want to move higher, we need to build that new democracy. I can't see the current system elevating itself.

    cakeisnotalie,

    deleted_by_author

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  • davevolek,
    @davevolek@mastodon.social avatar

    @cakeisnotalie @Mary625 @Scotts

    I agree that the system cannot be reformed. But should we trust the revolutionaries to build a better system for us?

    Or maybe we can build our system?

    cakeisnotalie,

    deleted_by_author

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  • davevolek,
    @davevolek@mastodon.social avatar

    @cakeisnotalie @Mary625 @Scotts

    Again, revolutionaries have a poor track of building a better society: Russia 1917, Cuba 1959, Africa, South America. Not one good example.

    In Chapter 6 of my book. I describe how the new system must and will be built outside the current system. It will take a decade.

    Giving to the side with the most guns is most likely not going to get the results you want.

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