@Jmb158 soo… just let the far right be elected by not voting for the available center option, right? surely that will help.
Argue, demonstrate, do whatever you can to make good options available, but if your favorite option is not available, letting the worse guy win because the alternative is not good enough is suicidal.
@tshirtman@Jmb158 In France many people voted for the alternative to far right. Called itself the center. And now it is nearly on the far right and the differences are very slim.
@parigotmanchot@Jmb158 I know, I'm french, I still think that was the right call, le Pen would have absolutely been worse, and we wouldn't have had some for if rebellion and big change over it, most people would just have accepted the result, let it slide and wait for the next election. And think about what would have happened had le Pen been the head of the European presidency in February 2022. Macron didn't do a lot of things right, but he handled that quite well, better than the left would.
@Jmb158@tshirtman Difference between Meloni and Macron is so slim... And on economic subject, there are no différence at all between Macron and LePen. That's called capitalism and liberalism. Or I would like some examples.
@tshirtman@Jmb158 There are two differences between Macron and LePen.
It's how gender minorities AND racial minorities are treated.
He finally treated racial minorities bad like would have donne LePen (Immigration Law).
If he does the same thing with gender minorities... there will be no difference.
That's short.
You can check differences between Macron and Meloni (Italia) : you won't find many.
@parigotmanchot@Jmb158 even if it was the only difference (I think you underestimate how economically liberal / "business friendly" her gov would be), that would be enough, like having gay rights to marry was a win of having Holland vs Sarkozy, even if the rest was not clearly better*, is a win we have and was worth buying for the "lesser evil" for.
*If we forget about corruption, which reminds me, imagine le Pen in power, haha, it would be a whole new level.
@parigotmanchot@Jmb158 And I've voted very much to the left all my life, but I'm disgusted by it's current state, too many red flags, they need to fix the craziness, and I'm not taking about "wokeism" of stupid things like this, but they are almost as contaminated by Russian propaganda as the far right, main difference is they do it for free...
They won't win, for good reasons, until Mélenchon is gone.
@parigotmanchot@Jmb158 yeah, I'm not sure if the party can be saved, at this point I almost regret he succeeded in killing the PS, something I very much desired.
@parigotmanchot@Jmb158 it's been more complex than "I'm a leftist" for some time, for sure, I still think billionaires shouldn't exist, and that some things should be managed by the state without a profit motive, etc, but I think the "leftist" politicians have lost their way, populism is a dead end, and being "against" made them vulnerable to manipulation by chaos agents (state actor propaganda), the right is of course still worse, for different reasons, but the state of the left is sickening.
@tshirtman the point here is that vote for the center option is just producing the reverse of what the option claim to be.
It just delays a little bit the unavoidable raise of the far right...
@Jmb158 my point if that even if it just delays, this delay still make a difference in people's lives, and it's easier to stand for a fight when you aren't in a fascist state, where it would cost you your life to protest (I acknowledge repression is violent these days, but it still has a long way to go to fascism, and we don't want that). The question is, what makes the centrist position tilt to the right? It's not even true on all the subjects, some battles are won. It's cultural shifts.
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