Considering splurging on my first espresso machine to get the fully automatic Jura Z10 that most seem to be getting great reviews. Anyone in here who has experience with it? I trust your people’s opinion much more than I trust the rest of the Internet 😃 https://us.jura.com/en/homeproducts/machines/Z10-Aluminium-White-NAA-15361
@simonbs We had a Jura in our home for ~10 years. Worked fine. Fundamental problem is that you can’t completely open and clean the machine. Now using a DeLonghi since 5+ years. And yes, you don’t really want to see what’s going on in there after several months without cleaning it. On the other hand, I want to enjoy the coffee, so I’d much rather clean it thoroughly every 1-2 months.
@simonbs Still, the premium Juras are not cheep but you get what you are paying for, especially if the Z10 is going to last me another 20 years.
Regarding premium, I just purchased Runestone Premium. Hope that helps 😉.
@simonbs hi Simon, I had fully automatic coffee makers for 20 years and recently switched to grinder + tiny portafilter. Can only recommend - coffee quality is so much better.
For fully automatic ones, I would always go with Saeco - they last usually forever. DeLonghi, Jura etc usually a bit less in my limited experience.
Ultimately I would say it’s one of the best automatic machines you can get. It’s convenient but the results will never be 100% what you can get out of a manual machine. What most people underestimate is the amount of cleaning it takes to keep one of those machine properly clean (beyond the usually cleaning cycles).
@mlinzner I have watched James Hoffman’s videos and I feel like he doesn’t have much positive to say about these machines but I also think he’s expectations to an espresso is very different from mine 😄
I’ll have to look more into the cleaning of such a machine. I don’t want to spend a great chunk of my spare time cleaning a machine. I’m hoping that’s mostly automated.
@simonbs haha, well those machines are all opinionated in a way. So if James tries to brew light roasted espressos, he runs into limitations quite quickly.
We had a few different ones in the offices and all of them are annoying as hell to keep clean. Jura was for sure the best but the automatic programs can only do so much. A huge chunk of those machine has some mold inside because it is just a matter of time when wet coffee grounds are trapped somewhere and create a whole ecosystem 😃
@simonbs not really because the coffee doesn’t have to travel somewhere inside the machine. With the Sage, you still have to move the coffee yourself (from grinder to
brewer and then the wet coffee grounds to the trash).
@mlinzner Yeah, I see. You’re making a fairly good point. Not totally sold on the Sage yet but I might end up being. I’m really going for good/decent espresso at high convenience and maybe the Sage is just that.
@simonbs I had a Jura and after about a year the auto tamping mechanism got clogged up. Had to clear it monthly for another year before it gave up. We also had one at work and it was always out of action for cleaning.
I’ve had a Sage (Oracle) since 2018 and it’s been flawless. Separating ground coffee, tamping, and water into separate processes is far simpler.
@simonbs Go for the Sage and a decent grinder, you won’t regret it and the quality will be much better than an automated machine like this. It’s takes me less than 30 seconds to make a decent coffee each morning and zero mess. You also come to appreciate the manual aspect as it becomes a kind of art you try to improve on, like programming.
@simonbs The espresso machine is not important. The grinder is. You want a burr grinder, and if like me you understood yet didn’t really believe this at first, get the Rancilio Rocky. It’s great value for what you get. After that, just focus on good beans. With freshly roasted great beans ground shortly before brewing, any brewing mechanism is fine. I use La Pavoni, but a moka pot is fine too.
@niklassaers Yeah, it’s just that I’m prioritizing not making a mess while brewing coffee quite high and general convenience somewhat high. That’s why I’m leaning towards either the Sage Barista Touch Inlress with everything built in and tons of guidance or a fully automatic.
@simonbs superautomatics make decent espresso but never as good as you could do with a dedicated machine and a separate grinder. Also require a decent amount of cleaning for the mechanism. Don't know this machine specifically but the frothing can be mediocre. If your priority is convenience and one-button coffee, it's way way better than a pod based machine, if your priority is flavor you're going to hit a ceiling on what you can get out of a machine like this.
@axxl Thanks for your input! If my alternative is a Breville/Sage Barista Touch Impress, do you then think an automatic is better? I hear mixed things about Sage’s products, especially the grinder and their reliability and maintainability over the years.
@simonbs If you have a budget to afford the Jura you could do a lot better than the barista impress for a semiautomatic espresso machine. The grinder the more important piece, I have the breville barista express and then bought a new grinder for it when I hit the limit there, but if you're splurging on a machine you could just buy a dedicated separate grinder. For tamping control there are more simple solutions like a spring loaded tamper:
@axxl Right. It’s just that Sage’s products are quite attractive to me because they seem to cater for convenience and not making a mess with their built-in grinder and tamper. That’s why I’m leaning towards either a Sage or a super automatic.
@simonbs Mess is a valid concern, there are grinders with dosers that can minimize the mess a bit but yeah. I think that people look down on Sage/Breville more than they should. I guess I'd go with the Sage because if you ever do want a separate grinder, you can always continue to use the portafilter, you have no upgrade paths on the Jura except for buying a new machine.
@simonbs I think ours is at least 10y old, probably more like 15y. It is a high quality product.
I’m not a coffee connoisseur and can’t comment on that quality of the coffee itself, but I pull out several coffees a day. The hardware part is good ;-)
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