Recommendations of non-Apple products with similar longevity?

EDIT: Getting a ton of great responses thanks everyone <3 Once this is up for 24 hours or so I’ll make another edit summarizing everyone’s recs for future reference. Keep ‘em coming!

TL;DR Have any recs for non-Apple phones/laptops that have lifespans of at least 5+ years?

Wanted to get everyone’s opinion on want brands/products have worked for them. I’m lightly techy and not afraid to put some effort in, but also don’t want to build everything from scratch. I think Apple’s products are often anti-consumer, anti-privacy, anti-yadda yadda yadda.

At the same time, with both phones and laptops, I’ve found my Apple products to have double or even triple the lifespan of any other brand. I did my research and bought a $1000+ HP laptop with Ryzen7 a little over two years ago, and due to a flaw in the hinge which is now subject to a class action lawsuit, the screen has cracked and it’s mostly unusable. Other purchase haven’t failed quite that dramatically but don’t tend to last as long. On the other hand, my or my partner’s old Macbooks and iPhones are easily seeing 5+ years of use in addition to software updates.

So let me know what’s worked for you!

HidingCat,

I mean, if we're going by anecdotes, on average, most gear will last 5 years more often than not. I still have my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 that's still working, just that it's sorely obsolete on the software side. Another even more extreme example: I also have a Samsung i600 that's also still working, and only recently has the battery started showing signs of bloating. That's a 15+ year-old phone!

The several thousand laptops the charity I worked for (and still volunteer for sometimes) give out yearly also indicate that plenty of laptops will make it past the 5 year mark. Until last year we were still giving out 6th gen Intel laptops.

MalReynolds,
@MalReynolds@slrpnk.net avatar

Samsung Galaxy Note 3

Whack LineageOS on that puppy!

Overzeetop,

Dell Precision line for computers. They are not light. They are not slim. They are not fashionable. They can probably stop a bullet. Dell is still actively still selling (refurb’d) units from ~6 Intel generations ago. The desktop workstations are similarly bulletproof.

CalcProgrammer1,
@CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml avatar

Linux phones should allow for much higher longetivity than Android or iOS devices as Linux phone OSes update more like desktop OSes than mobile, in that the device-specific parts are relatively small instead of having the entire OS image be custom made for a specific device. As long as your device has mainline Linux support it will continue to receive updates pretty much forever, or until Linux drops the architecture (unlikely any time soon for ARM, especially ARM64).

People praise Apple for 6 years of updates but my 2010 desktop build runs Windows 10 flawlessly still and will run fine with updates until 2025. Windows 11 arbitrarily ends support officially, but it would still work fine. Linux works flawlessly too and will continue to do so. 6 years is shit, but the entire mobile industry is even shittier on average so 6 years ends up looking decent.

argv_minus_one,

Similar longevity to Apple products isn’t a high bar.

acastcandream,

deleted_by_author

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    argv_minus_one, (edited )

    There’s a decade-old Windows 10 machine around here that says otherwise.

    And even older Linux machines.

    And their hardware still works.

    There’s also a MacBook that started falling apart a couple of years after purchase, and an iPhone whose battery life has gone to hell in only a couple of years (meanwhile, some even-older Pixel 3as are still running like champs).

    Apple hardware is junk.

    acastcandream,

    deleted_by_author

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    argv_minus_one,

    My point is that most computers last longer than Apple ones.

    acastcandream, (edited )

    deleted_by_author

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    argv_minus_one,

    I am a source. Over the last few decades, most computers and phones around here worked fine throughout their service lives and either are still in service or were replaced because they became obsolete, but about half of the Apples suffered hardware failure of some kind—two Macs died, one MacBook’s video cuts out if the lid is opened more than a couple of inches and its keyboard is very glitchy, and one iPhone’s battery life has become terrible despite reporting 90% battery health. Seriously not impressed with Apple hardware.

    I_is_a_pirate,

    God its like battle of the neckbeards, “quite incorrect kind sir, MacBooks run for years, challenge me again and I will make you rue the day! I tip my fedora to you sir! Good day!”

    acastcandream, (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    I_is_a_pirate,

    It’s a good thing that the opinion of a neckbeard can hardly be called valid.

    acastcandream, (edited )

    deleted_by_author

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    I_is_a_pirate,

    You are truly kind.

    Vrabielley,

    deleted_by_author

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    argv_minus_one,

    'Fraid so.

    Vrabielley,

    deleted_by_author

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    argv_minus_one,

    Being blasted with ads is your idea of a better experience? You and I clearly don’t live in the same reality.

    Vrabielley,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    argv_minus_one,

    The browser. You are forced to use Safari. Safari does not allow extensions or otherwise block ads. I use Firefox with uBlock Origin on my phone.

    Syldon,

    adblockplus.org

    Works as well as ublock origin, which I use on my PC.

    Don’t get me wrong I would never advice anyone to use a Macbook over a PC. There are some people who are embedded in their ecosystem, but generally they are expensive to buy and expensive to repair machines. But not having a decent adblock is not one of the reasons I would use.

    argv_minus_one,

    ABP is, ironically, adware, and probably also malware. You’d be better off with the stock browser.

    Syldon,

    You are going to have to back that statement up with something.

    agentsquirrel,

    I’m typing this on a ten year MacBook Pro that is running a currently supported version of MacOS and runs as fast as the day I bought it. I have two MacBook Airs that are eleven years old and still in secondary service. I have a pile of Dell and Lenovo Windows laptops of similar age that can still run but are basically doorstops or suitable for beater Linux or BSD machines, definitely not daily drivers.

    argv_minus_one,

    I’m typing this on a ten year MacBook Pro

    Lucky you, I guess, because I sure haven’t had such good fortune.

    that is running a currently supported version of MacOS

    How is that possible? The almost-dead MacBook I mentioned is younger than yours and is stuck on Monterey.

    and runs as fast as the day I bought it.

    Probably. I didn’t say anything about how fast they are, because all common platforms in use today still run reasonably well on decade-old hardware.

    If it had 10ish GB of RAM, at least. Browsers eat RAM like popcorn.

    I have a pile of Dell and Lenovo Windows laptops of similar age that can still run but are basically doorstops or suitable for beater Linux or BSD machines, definitely not daily drivers.

    I’m guessing you didn’t pay $2500 for them, though. That’s down to specs, not manufacturer. Apple hardware is almost invariably high-spec and therefore quite fast, but Apple thankfully doesn’t have a monopoly on fast computers.

    DarkwinDuck,

    Okay i’m not sure how much + is in your 1000$ and obviously there’s a manufacturing defect at olay here. But man a MacBook is 2000$+ I have heard this argument too often unfortunately:

    I tried Android once and it was horrible so i just went back to iPhone©™ and now everything is great again.

    Context: they bought a 300$ Samsung phone and expected it to perform the same as their previous 800$ iPhone…

    And this just sounds too similar. “I previously had a 2000$+ device, now I bought a 1000$+ one and it doesn’t perform the same.” Except for the part where it’s also a shitty brand and the device had a manufacturing defect.

    NightAuthor,

    I’m no apple shill, but every Samsung I’ve had felt great for a few months. And rapidly started to run like absolute shit. Then I swore off them for a couple of years, and came back when everyone was like “this one’s different, it’s not like the ones before” and then I had the same issue. So I got a Pixel, and that was so much better software wise. But that pixel 2 had a design defect that saw lots of devices having GPS problems and that was annoying as hell when I was trying to do Uber.

    My past 2 phones have been iPhones. Not perfect, I miss lots of the customization and developer level control over stuff… but my phone works, reliably. I was pissed about throttlegate , I had one of those phones affected, but the phone was like 4/5 years old… and I decided that my experience with other phones was worse, and got another iPhone.

    I’m feeling the need to upgrade again, and while I can’t endorse a lot of the anti-consumer shit apple does… I need a reliable phone. So, hopefully there’s another option out there for me.

    DarkwinDuck, (edited )

    Honestly I had a OnePlus 6T for 4 years and after that started feeling slightly slow and i need it for testing at work, I now have a Pixel 7. Both the 6T and the pixel are great phones. My only regret is my own fault, i want to have a telephoto camera but thought that it’s not worth buying the pixel 7 pro for… There’s many good options out there. But i admit they are harder to find. It’s not “buy iPhone” and be done with it.

    But honestly every Apple device i’ve used in the past made me dislike Apples software more and more. It’s fine as long as you aren’t used to anything else and aren’t a Poweruser i guess. But there’s just so many weird decisions in the software. And it’s all locked down to hell.

    NightAuthor,

    I’ll have to look into the latest androids, but I’m sure the only one that’s really a contender will be the latest Pixel. I love the option to use Graphene OS also.

    yum13241,

    Just unlock the damn bootloader and install a custom ROM.

    NightAuthor,

    Samsungs (at least the ones I had) don’t have unlockable bootloaders. And the pixel, well custom Roms don’t fix hardware issues.

    yum13241,

    Samsungs have unlockable bootloaders, hell, I’m typing this from a SM-P610 running LineageOS 20.

    NightAuthor,

    Idk all the particulars, I just know my S7 is still not bootloader unlockable, and pretty sure previous galaxy phones weren’t either. That was my last Samsung. Not sure if this was a US thing, a T-Mobile/Sprint think (who I had back then), or a Samsung thing. But HTC and Pixel phones seemed to always be unlockable.

    yum13241,

    Older devices are harder to bootloader unlock, but nowadays they make it easier. My Verizon Note 3’s unlocked too. The carrier usually makes it harder.

    briongloid,
    @briongloid@aussie.zone avatar

    ThinkPads are considered the Windows/Linux equivalent of Apple laptops in business settings.

    TheFriendlyArtificer,

    And owned by Lenovo. Who in the past loaded unremovable bloatware reinstallers into their BIOS so that fresh installs always reloaded their shit.

    If you want a Linux laptop, System76 is your best bet.

    CaptainHowdy,

    I love my x1 from lenovo. No bloat at all and excellent customer service. I broke a USB port and they sent a guy to my house to fix it.

    toff,

    Or Tuxedo for people, who live in Europe.

    trevor,

    Superfish. Never forget. Literally BIOS-level malware, and people still buy things from Lenovo.

    NightAuthor,

    I mean, they only put that on consumer grade devices. lol

    trevor,

    So? Why would you trust a company to not put it on ThinkPads as well if they think they could get away with it?

    TheBest,

    Side note, I have such mixed feelings on HP. I have only anecdotal things to say, so please keep that in mind!

    I bought a budget HP Pavilion back in 2020, for a similar reason to you, because of the Ryzen setup. It sees use 4-5 times a week. And I have to say… I love it.

    The build quality is, in my opinion, outstanding for a budget ($600) laptop. Its metal, solid, with almost no noticable keyboard flex. It feels so much better than both Dells my wife and I use for work. And the keyboard is actually my favorite of all the boards in my house.

    My family has always had new tech coming in and out of the house and one of the longest lasting devices we had was an HP 2-In-1.

    I don’t support their scummy software practices (shoutout brother printers). But for the most part every piece of HP tech I’ve bought has been average or above. But online they’re somewhat universally panned. Its interesting.

    JustARegularNerd,

    This is just in my limited experience, I work as a tech for an MSP and I’ve generally seen HPs fail more so than other brands (not by a wide margin but I wouldn’t buy a HP).

    The other device we see fail more is Microsoft Surfaces, especially the tablets. I love the form factor and what Microsoft goes for with them but I’d never buy one purely on the reliability concerns I have, and (with a couple of exceptions) terrible repairability.

    wrath-sedan,
    wrath-sedan avatar

    I would have agreed until the hinge broke through my HP Envy x360 screen :-(

    Not much of a warning before it happened either, I would look into your model to see if that’s a recurring issue. Apparently you can loosen the tension in the screw on the hinge ahead of time to help avoid it eventually snapping. Good luck either way!

    LinuxSBC,

    Don’t buy HP laptops. They’re terrible. Framework is great, and Lenovo and Dell are generally pretty good. Put Linux on it if you care about privacy.

    RickRussell_CA,

    It’s a little early to pronounce longevity on Framework. They could be great, the pieces are there for them to be great, but the whole enterprise could fail and leave you with an upgradeable/fixable laptop with no upgrades or parts.

    dudewitbow,

    I mean, a single year upgradable parts is already better than 99% of the market, thats not a hard bar to pass.

    LinuxSBC,

    At the very least, if Framework dies, many of the parts are standardized, and the ones that aren’t are mostly open source. The SSD, RAM, WiFi card, and screen connector are all standardized. The expansion cards use USB-C and have an open-source shape; many people have already made third-party expansion cards. The motherboard has an open-source layout, and there are open-source CAD files to make custom enclosures (again, people have already done it). There are general schematics with pinouts on their Github, and they’ve provided exact schematics to repair stores. If they die, you end up with a laptop that is more repairable than almost any other, as well as a community with enough information to keep it alive if they want to.

    RickRussell_CA,

    I’m not knocking Framework at all here (and in fact they may be my next laptop), but repairability and long-lasting don’t quite mean the same thing. Usually when people say “long lasting” they mean something that is durable and reliable. Repairability can contribute to that, of course, but the option of 3D printing my own parts, or open specs on certain parts, doesn’t really make the device last longer without breaking. At best, it gives me some options to remediate it when it fails, and if I’m not capable of making my own parts, then my only option may be to buy parts anyway and deal with downtime.

    pemmykins,

    Just wanted to expand a bit on your comment - Dell have a few laptop product lines, and the Latitude line is the business one that should be the most reliable/longest-supported. I’ve had a few Latitude laptops that lasted 3 years each before I changed jobs and left them behind, and was satisfied with them. Worked well with Linux which was a bigger deal back in 2015 than it is now.

    Other companies are probably the same - Lenovo thinkpads are good, yoga not so much.

    Totally agree about Linux, it’s come a long way in the last 10 years and you can do basically everything there now. Battery life may be affected, I think that’s one of the last areas they need to work on.

    Nerd02,

    Smartphone: I’ve just said goodbye to my Honor phone after 5/6 years of service (can’t remember how many precisely). Incredible lifespan for its price.

    However repairability could be great. I’ve changed its battery once and screen a couple times, by the end of it the frame was about to break from all the times I had opened it.

    unix_joe,

    Laptops: ThinkPad P-series. The repairability that the T-series used to have with slightly beefier specs and better heatsinks. Great for Linux.

    Phones: FairPhone 4 (FP5 will likely be announced end of the month so wait for that) - user repairable, supports alternate operating systems, 7 years official OS support from FairPhone.

    jcarax,

    The real P-series, though, the P14s and P16s are just T14 and T16 with slightly more aggressive fan curves so they boost a bit more.

    That said, the T series are still very nice laptops, they’ve just followed the industry trend of sacrificing user replaceable RAM, and in some cases, wifi. They still have published hardware maintenance manuals, and readily available parts for repair.

    I just grabbed a P14s gen4 AMD, because I need 64GB RAM for my intended purpose, but prefer and need no more than an AMD APU. I still might sacrifice part of my intention and get a T14s instead, for quieter operation and slightly better build quality.

    Vuipes,
    Vuipes avatar

    I would not trust apple products. Self cracking display on laptop? Updates that slow down devices on purpose? no, thanks

    jaackf,

    Never had any issues on any of my macbooks and I’ve had them for over 5 years each. My 2012 mbp still runs as good as the day I got it!

    gustulus,

    I can’t say the same about my 2012 mbp, it’s been basically useless for like 5 years now.

    Vuipes,
    Vuipes avatar

    I was referring mainly to newer models, the older line around 2012 was really good.

    jaackf,

    Fair enough, you’re right they were great. Tbf everything up until the 2015 models were solid, as they were somewhat upgradable. Though, I’ve got a new M1 MAX and it’s easily the best laptop I’ve ever owned!

    NightAuthor,

    Performance wise, sure… but I also believe that’s the model that, if you’re lucky, will fry itself to 100% uselessness, and make your data completely unrecoverable.

    If you must use a MacBook, keep backups, and keep AppleCare on it. Just consider it your apple device subscription.

    cnnrduncan,

    Didn’t Apple get hit with a class action lawsuit over their 2011 Macbook Pros frying themselves?

    Vuipes,
    Vuipes avatar

    You are right, I didn't know about this.

    TheFriendlyArtificer,

    My key caps have been falling off my work provided M1 Air. Thankfully, the keyboard is so crap I can barely tell the difference.

    Ended up repurposing an old XPS 13 that I found in a supply closet as my dev box.

    Wayland+Sway == Infinitely better experience

    Moonrise2473,

    Any laptop designed for enterprise like Lenovo Thinkpad or hp elitebook/ProBook

    Your laptop was an HP pavilion, right? Those are designed to barely last the warranty period. Their engineers on this product line have a long experience of carefully choosing plastics that will degrade within 24 months

    IMHO MacBooks are super overrated. OS support is not as long as normal computers (5 years instead of “indefinite”) and they still have hardware flaws to hinges and keyboard

    cnnrduncan,

    HP’s consumer side definitely declined rapidly in quality over the last 10-15 years - had an HP that needed repairs after a few months back in '14 whereas I’ve got a Pavilion from '04 or so that’s still going!

    BCsven,

    it varies , I had 2015 zbook, HP repaired it under warranty about 4 times for ongoing undiagnosable video failures. (At end it had new display and display cable, new GPU, new mobo and new keyboard, since they could not locate what was triggering display problem) However 2017 Zbook still chugging alomg with 0 issues.

    ExLisper,

    IMHO MacBooks are super overrated. OS support is not as long as normal computers (5 years instead of “indefinite”) and they still have hardware flaws to hinges and keyboard

    And batteries. Swollen batteries in MacBooks were very common at my work. I have never seen it in any other laptop but Desktop Support would just react to it with ‘o, another one’.

    gianni,
    @gianni@lemmy.ca avatar

    I don’t currently use macOS, but macOS support is typically about 7 years, sometimes up to 10. Apple supports the 3 latest versions of its operating system.

    Mainstream Windows support seems to be about 1-3 years.

    Moonrise2473,

    What are you talking about? You can take a Pentium 4 from twenty years ago and install latest windows 10. Microsoft releases a new version every 6 to 12 months but the computer updates automatically. Of course it makes no sense for them to continue supporting an old version that anyway everyone can update from without issues

    And once apple decided the os is not compatible, your computer is on death row. Latest apps won’t run. Ok, can get security updates, but you needed to run latest final cut pro x? Bad luck, insert credit card and purchase new Mac

    gianni,
    @gianni@lemmy.ca avatar

    You, in fact, cannot install Windows 10 on a Pentium 4.

    Moonrise2473,

    Ok then an athlon64 from the year 2003

    JustARegularNerd,

    So I’ve only somewhat recently got into the Apple ecosystem, but I can tell you that once a macOS version loses support it’s technically on death row but nowhere near as dramatic as you mention.

    I recently daily drove a Mac running macOS Catalina (2019) and I was surprised that it still ran everything I needed for my IT degree (Zoom, Office 365 suite, VSCode, Signal, Tailscale, etc.) and the only real issue I noticed was Apple’s Xcode not being compatible.

    I also own a Mac mini 2012 with i5/8GB, and while I don’t use it often, my parents daily drive that as a smart TV and web browsing machine with no real issues at all. The last official version of macOS on it was Catalina, but I used community patches to push it up to Monterey (2021) and it’s totally fine.

    I think when you own and actually use a Mac, you will find in its own way, that they do last longer than Windows equivalents. I have a 2012 Latitude with i5/8GB and yes I could run the latest Win10 natively (but not Win11 without hacks) but I don’t think it exactly cuts the mustard anymore, and I think most people who would use it would generally agree. Given its age I would just Linux it up if I wanted to daily drive it.

    slauraure,

    For phones 5+ years of updates is good compared to the alternatives, and is why I have one. For a computer, on the other hand, it’s just not very impressive. Perhaps FairPhones come close (don’t know how long their software is supported but their selling point is longevity), but their specs aren’t that impressive. On the flip side you get something repairable.

    MacBooks are often built better with higher quality materials than many other laptops, but it is essentially a computer. Most computers that have high enough specs will always run the latest version of most Linux distributions or Windows barring any need for weird drivers from the past century. Feels a little iffy to have a perfectly good computer that won’t update software anymore just because. Up until recently you could just install some Linux OS on your old MacBooks when it went out of support but honestly I don’t know whether you can still do that after they started making non-x86 stuff.

    With all that said, haven’t seen many laptops physically outlive MacBooks’ updates. With the exception of some ThinkPads and possibly some XPS models. Plastic laptops with plastic hinges tend to struggle keeping up, especially if the display is on the larger side. A large gaming laptop living the life of a typical MacBook, going to cafes and university in a backpack every day is probably gonna have more stress on hinges etc.

    As for HP I have only heard bad stuff about them for the last 10 years or so. Don’t think I’ll buy stuff from them due to their evil printers that won’t scan without ink etc.

    Not many specific recommendations here but just some observations I have made. Hope it’s helpful.

    BCsven,

    I agree on HP printer subscription ink, that is an outright scam. But I have had an HP 2017 Zbook for daily use and travel and 0 issues.

    conciselyverbose,

    honestly I don’t know whether you can still do that after they started making non-x86 stuff

    Asahi Linux isn't far off and I'm guessing it will be ready for prime time before anything Apple Silicon loses support.

    d3Xt3r,
    • Laptop: Framework. Modular hardware, easy to upgrade and repair.
    • Smartphone: Pixel + GrapheneOS.
    Camilo,

    Pixel + Graphene OS is such a good combination! I’ve been using it for months now and I feel free with it.

    I wish small pixels were still a thing, now they are all 6inch+

    cnnrduncan,

    Framework definitely seems the way to go if you want a long-lived laptop - as long as you live in one of the few countries that they sell to!

    bartolomeo,
    @bartolomeo@suppo.fi avatar

    Oneplus phones are good. Beastly specs and run LineageOS. Also not too challenging or expensive to replace (most) parts.

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