There has been a recent movement of states with bad flags trying to improve their image. Illinois might be next and I’m quite excited about it as it’s long overdue!
I thought, “Doesn’t Illinois have one of the few good state flags?”
Nope, I was thinking of the city flag of Chicago. The state flag is literally just the state crest on a white background. It would absolutely benefit from a redesign. :p
Probably for implying that “we’re going to conquer the world for our religion that was specifically racist until 2013 and abolish the separation of church and state” is the same thing as a cross or moon.
I’m gonna be real with you chief, of all the things you can accuse fundamentalist Muslims of racism isn’t really one them (the faith actually demands anti-racism… For the Faithful TM), and everything else they do Mormons can match.
Weird hangups about drugs? Yup.
Patriarchal polygamy? Yeppers.
Wanting to establish a global theocracy? You know it.
Weirdly obsessed with a desert city? Damn skippy.
So, idk, seems like a pretty clear victor there on the checklist. Anti-racism zealotry is better than specifically racist zealotry.
Also, just saying, a Muslim has never tried to convert me door to door.
The faith isn’t racist. You just have to do Arab rituals, wear Arab clothing, pray in Arabic, and the only proper way to read the Qur’an is if you know Arabic. Oh and also make a pilgrimage to Arabia.
Although I do concede that Mormonism is worse with the fabrication that the mark of cain is upon non white people, and that Islam doesn’t really call for discrimination against other races.
Although I do concede that Mormonism is worse with the fabrication that the mark of cain is upon non white people, and that Islam doesn’t really call for discrimination against other races.
I don't know about minority Mormon sects, but Latter-day Saints do not believe in the "mark of Cain" and do not believe in racial discrimination. We're pretty big on the "Golden Rule".
we’re going to conquer the world for our religion that was specifically racist until 2013
It’s still plenty racist.
abolish the separation of church and state
In Utah, its functionally non-existent. You don’t win city dog catcher if the electorate thinks you’re somehow anti-Mormon. You won’t be appointed to anything, either.
the same thing as a cross or moon
Go back to when those flags were originally stitched up and you’re going to find evangelical views remarkably similar to that of modern Mormons. Religious supremacy is at the heart of virtually every major surviving world religion. Putting a big cross on your flag and going out to conquer your religious rivals goes back to Constantine the Great.
The beehive isn't the significant religious symbol to Latter-day Saints that you think it is. Those of us not from Utah barely know about the symbol's relationship to the history of the Church.
Now I will admit that I’m a CGP Grey fan and thus biased, but I do think this rebuttal does feel more contrarian than reasoned.
He mentions the historical use of flags was for easy recognition at sea and in war and thus not really needed by established land-locked colonies, but I’d argue recognizability is still the main purpose of flags. I’d actually argue it’s more important now since we see so many more flags in our lifetime than anyone did 200 years ago. How often do you see states listed by or next to their flags now? Take this Wikipedia article on state populations. Do you need the flags to identify each state? Of course not. But they do enforce instant recognition of the state and make it easier to find the state you care about at a glance (so long as the state has a distinct flag).
Beyond that, he mentions the historical meaning of seals, but that need not be lost by a flag redesign. Take the proposal for the Keystone Flag, which reuses the colors of the seal while adding new meaning via symbolism. Both can be used as conversation points to teach about the history of the state, while the latter gains the benefit of being visually distinct.
He also mentions that the point of seals was to be visually intricate not because of the history they represent, but for security purposes. Why, then, do we need what is basically a watermark on our flag? Does it trump the desire for a visually appealing and meaningful flag just because it’s old?
As a final point, Grey has a practical reason for desiring distinct flags: he uses them to visually represent states and countries in his videos. His preference, biased as it may be by his own needs, is not arbitrarily decided.
I, on the other hand, am biased against CGP Grey, but I take your point that he didn’t arbitrarily arrive at his opinion. I do find the seals visually distinct myself but I can see it the other way.
You think that’s bad, check out some of the municipal flags in Japan, especially the ones designed in the early 2000s. The ones based on old clan symbols are fine, but those other ones look like some corpo bro from the 90s commissioned designs by saying “I want it to have more radical swoosh vibes!”
I don’t have any art background so I can’t really describe why the (non-clan based ones) feel so overly artificial. I think the color choice has a lot to do with it though-- way too many lime greens and oranges for me. Plus some of them are based on letters from the latin alphabet, which almost seems like a reverse weeb thing, ie “western letters are so cool guys!” Not that most of the kana ones are much better-- it’s hard to make lettering on a flag look good.
Maybe the vexillology community would be able to describe it better.
edit: I mistook the comment I replied to as a reply to my comment below, but I’ll leave this up as an explanation into why I find the Japanese flags strange
I can see where you’re coming from (in regards to Japanese prefecture flags) but I still think a lot of them look really good. At least the nicest thing is that they’re all consistent, but still a bit distinct from each other. And a symbol on a blanket is waaaay better than the american seal on a blanket in my opinion :)
Look, let’s be honest. Any change is “woke.” There is this imaginary world that existed 80 years ago that they want to get back to, that was all sunshine and surplus, and they think that any change, particularly progressive change, is bad and “woke.”
Edit: so I realized what instance I was in and that this isn’t the appropriate place for that rant. So I will just say that I really appreciate the changes that are being made to flags, because it seems like the people coming up with the flags in the first place didn’t really get it.
Wales’ status is somewhere between Scotland (with its own legal system, school curriculum and NHS) and Cornwall (a part of England which was once a distinct celtic nation). It was conquered by the English rather than its ruling elites being convinced to voluntarily unite, so was governed as if it was essentially a corner of England where some of the locals speak a funny language (which the authorities tried to cane out of them in schools). Now it has a parliament-like assembly, though without the legislative power of the Scottish one, and Welsh is officially used on signage throughout Wales (alongside English).
Ha! Sadly CGP grey loves his teslas and cars. His video about how self driving cars are the future shows a dystopian idea where pedestrians or cyclists have no space on the roads at all. (And he doesn’t even consider trains or other public transit)
Green and blue are pretty close to each other on the color spectrum, and they blend together at a distance. I would simplify and remove either the land or the water. They won’t blend into each other, and you still have more than enough symbolism.
The stoke on the wine glass is super smart. I like it. But I agree with the other commenter who recommended unifying the semi circle fill sizes. It simplifies the layout.
I would also pump up the stroke on the wine glass so that is reads a bit better from a distance. Also, that stroke is clever, so play that element up.
Yeah, there might be a way to make it work by fiddling with color values. Green next to blue can be tough, but it’s not impossible. The trick will be finding a green and blue that are also complimentary and don’t create a pallet that looks like a McDonald’s ball pit.
If you’re new to color theory, do a Google search for color theory / color pallet tools. There are a lot of good ones out there. Adobe has a nice free one.
You might also be able to represent land another way. Like using a shape or illustration instead or color.
That said, as someone who’s been doing this for few decades now and directs some design teams, my advice is to keep symbolism to like 2 or 3 things. One you go over that, it can really be easy to get messy harder to pull off. Just my 2¢.
That said, I like where you’re going with this. Will this be officially adopted by the area?
keep symbolism to like 2 or 3 things. One you go over that, it can really be easy to get messy harder to pull off.
Point taken.
Will this be officially adopted by the area?
I certainly intend to try and get it in front of the council, but they weren’t actively looking to get a flag. Folks around here can be hesitant to change, so I’m not getting my hopes up.
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