It’s obvious, and either many congressmen are an agent of a foreign power, or are truly dumb enough to not realize the unspoken obviousness of this simple fact.
Prefix: I ended up ranting/venting a bit… our government is so frustrating at times:
From a US perspective, it is more a time for other countries to step up in this regard (as they have been), as while continued funding and support from the US will happen, it may be a long time from the US (maybe even 2 to 4 years if this election cycle doesn’t oust/block some of these nutjobs that are either beholden to outside powers, or don’t understand anything outside our own borders).
I’ll take this time to say what many keep unspoken, because Ukrainians have the balls to actually voice it to the world:
No offense to Ukrainians, I want them to win, but even a loss in Ukraine after a sustained long drawn out battle, is of benefit to any country Russia considers an adversary, a place to oppress, or a country were attractive resources. Ukraine should be supported in their opposition to this invasion for as many years as it takes, no matter what. Twenty years, fifty years, however long; there should be no metric of ‘it’s been 2 years, and Ukraine hasn’t won; are they just wasting our money?’. That is just a dumb concept.
I’m not sure we should be dismissive of politicians trying to reduce interventionist foreign pokicy in the abstract. The “US as world police” paradigm is a difficult angle.
From the US perspective, it’s expensive AF, delivers erratic results (see Iraq) and it’s created a lot of enemies over the years, basically handing Russia and China a support base on a silver platter.
On a global level, it does seem a bit weird for everyone to come calling to one nation for support, which doesn’t really encourage a multi-voiced and spirited debate if everything breaks down to “whoever has US backing wins”.
There’s definitely a “we wrote a cheque we no longer want to cash” lock-in factor on this conflict, but maybe it’s also time to stop writing so many cheques.
Unless all countries come together, the idea of a ‘world police’ by any number of select countries is silly.
One nation being the ‘world police’ is even crazier.
We rely on coalitions nowadays to do much (Iraq, Haiti, Yemen, …maybe Yemen again soon…, etc).
Coalitions are better than a single nation, but should really be an organization independent of any nations, that people trust; in the modern world, ideally would be the UN, which has peacekeeping forces, but I don’t know if the trust is currently there with the UN, and a number of ‘bad actors’, namely because the UN doesn’t serve that purpose, it is supposed to be a dialog between nations, not a unifying power, or protector/military force.
The good news on the US front, is for many coalitions to step in, the US is trying to take a back-seat, and have other nations lead them. Not that those other nations don’t have concerns. I’m not up to date on it, but I believe Kenya was being sought to lead the coalition to Haiti to restore peace and order, but I believe there were concerns about the history of Kenyan police treatment in past coalitions. Still, the US should not be the one in-charge of world policing, though that is not to say they shouldn’t be involved in any such action, just they are a piece of the puzzle, not the solution in and of itself.
I’m rambling too much. I think it’s time for me to get off Lemmy for the day. Peace out.
Could Americans, just for once, take responsibility for their own shitty politicians and politics, rather than blaming it on foreigners? This “foreign agent” bullshit is basically the same kind of conspiracy theory scape goating that Republicans do with Qanon, and it’s bordering on fascistic in it’s attitude.
Saying that foreign agents control your politicians is far more damning of those politicians and your country than it is of the foreign agents. Foreign agents are supposed to try to influence the politicians, and the politicians are supposed to resist that influence. One group is doing their job, and the other isn’t.
Nothing about my point is changed in the slightest by that distinction. If your country’s politicians are another country’s agents, your country is doing it wrong.
I get what you are saying, but but whether or not a country’s politicians are loyal to that country isn’t a fascist thing, even if fascists are quick to claim it as part of their fear generating schtick.
As far as I am personally concerned, the super wealthy are way more foreign to me than regular folks in the rest of the world. In that sense, our US politicians definitely serve foreign interests. Our politicians serve anyone with cash, and I don’t think they care much which side of the border that money comes from.
USA is a fascist country. Why do you even need to elaborate? Hitler’s racial segregation policies were inspired by USA. USA to this date has Confederate flags in houses and sundown cities. And this is not limited to Republicans. The “leftist” liberals used Uyghurs for a fake genocide agenda, cheered for Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, and are happy about the genocide of brown skin Arabs. I trust sleeping naked with a cobra in a dark jungle over trusting USA.
not even if they were facing complete destruction would they conscript even 1% of the population.
Wars end when people get pissed or you run out of money. We are getting closer to that every day for both sides. if ukraine can at least keep getting more money, they eventually win. Ukrainians are the defenders, so their population is willing to fight for longer
Don’t look up the amount of Russian casualties in WW2.
Ukranians are getting forced into military draft too. I’m quite sure a large part of the Ukranians aren’t willing to risk their lives for their country either. But you seem to have no problem sacrificing them as if they are funny peons you can throw at Russians.
Wonder how much you would support this if you were the one that was forced to go to the front line. You can volunteer to go to Ukraine and fight against the Russians yourself by the way.
Exactly, when Russia was being invaded, they lost a ton of people to defend their land. Doesn’t mean they died willingly (people were drafted against their will, in every war in history that happens), but the pressure to surrender didn’t mount up on the government. In a defensive war, people are more willing to die and to let their fellow citizens die. There are always people clamoring for an agreement or a surrender to avoid loss of life, but those voices are few compared to the ones who want to defend their land (or want others to go do it).
In a war of aggression however, every death come with a “why the fuck are we attacking them anyway? why did my son/brother/cousin have to die?”. USA lost in vietnam that way. More kills, more money, won basically every engagement and still lost the war. If the population is against a war of aggression, it will end.
Very few wars end in complete domination of the enemy. Most end in an agreement of some sort or a retreat. I believe that, if Ukraine keeps getting money to stay in the fight, they will outlast Russia in political willingness to fight and will recover their land.
If you’re shilling for NATO, you absolutely fucking are a nazi get the fuck out of here
You are literally upping a genocidal campaign to encircle and exterminate a sovereign nation, no matter how many ukronazis and civilians who never asked for this that you have to spend; you’re a fuckin nazi. Country of collaborators, swear to god
Ukraine is never going to win this war no matter how hard western libs keep praying.
This is the fate of any country that sells itself out to the imperial core including the EU states who facilitated this bloodbath instead of peace and diplomacy.
I hope Russia does take over the whole of Ukraine because I don’t trust a Ukraine left to its own devices after this humiliating defeat.
I love how it’s always gotta be “Russian troll farms” with you settlers. It can never be your own sick-and-tired countrymen. Can never be any of the masses of subjects-of-empire you’ve gentrified, redlined, and incarcerated out of house and home. Can never be the rest of a world sick of Five-Eyes genocides.
It’s always gotta be a faceless troll farm with you genocide-addicted, responsibility-lacking, settler-assed Devils; 'cause if you can just sideline all resistance as ‘paid-for troll farm posting’, you don’t have to do any kind of self-reflection. You don’t have to stop and demand better of your leaders. You don’t have to stop and question if everything you and your ancestors have been told and have been doing for the past 400 years has been wrong.
I can’t wait for your comeuppance to land. I really can’t. I don’t even care if I’m caught in the crossfire anymore, I want to see you collectively catch what you have coming that bad. Please get Replaced already.
It’s funny because from my perspective. Russia is just a genocide addicted as the west is. All countries have it’s demons. And the atrocities of one does not justify the atrocities of another. No country is perfect. Because it’s the nature of humanity to be imperfect. We always divide ourselves along lines even if it’s detrimental to our own survival. I wish we could reconcile but peace generally comes after the conflict. And I’m sure you know it’s too far gone for that now.
The Ukrainians are fighting for their own country. Russia is the fool who thought it could waltz into a foreign country armed to the teeth and not expect resistance. They thought it would be all over in two days, instead it looks like you guys have fought to a stalemate. A battle of attrition. Sure the west is (or was) propping up the Ukraine, but guess what when a country feels like it’s cornered, when it’s patriotic and believes in its own betterment, they will fight to the last man without fear. To them it’s simple. It’s their families, their homes and their lives which Russia has uprooted. They didn’t want any of this. Now they have it, they aren’t going to sit idly by and let a foreign country do what they want in their own borders. No country will ever allow that. Sure they’re humble enough to beg for help, but they will fight even without that. Even if it’s a losing battle, because to them, it’s win or die - it’s win or lose their whole way of life, so they lash out like a cornered wolf. They don’t care about the previous atrocities they don’t care about which side is wrong or right. They care about what’s happening now, on their own soil and will do anything in their power to stop it.
It’s their home, and humanity will allways fight to defend our own homes, our own lives, and our own culture. We all believe in our basic right to live, and we will all fight for that right.
The situation in Israel is a lot less black and white. It’s two groups who were unfortunately, deliberately split along awkward lines. Both want unification, they want the land they both have claim to, but in their own favour, both have committed unspeakable acts against each other in the past. Wether the initial attack by Palestine was false flag or foolhardy. It still matters that Israel are taking it a little too far. But that’s what they do - back and forth. It’s their inability to forgive past acts that make them always at each other’s throats. Violence begets more violence. And the west seems to have an interest in assisting Israel, despite public opinion moving majorly against that interest.
The Ukrainians are fighting for their own country. Russia is the fool who thought it could waltz into a foreign country armed to the teeth and not expect resistance.
Typical locust ignoring democratic self-determination when it suits them. This never needed to happen if Ukraine didn’t decide to blow away Donetsk and Luhansk for what? For voting to separate from Ukraine and become Russian. Democratically. Fucking wasteman, John Brown would’ve ventilated you too. Stay out of my inbox if that’s what you honestly believe, I don’t need more techbro MIC-polishers clogging it up.
Tell me how exactly Russia benefits from the prolonged war with amounting financial cost and casualties that future generations of Russians will pay?
Russia is experiencing demographic crisis before the war, and many men either fled or died, and the country have become beholden to China, Iran and North Korea. And Russia has only issued partial mobilisation, but imagine if the entire country then mobilised more for total war just to try to beat another country that is 1/10th the size and couldn’t do so for two years.
Ukraine mobilised for total war already and they’re willing to die for a bigger goal and for their homeland. Are you yourself willing to be complicit to your country’s decline for handful of rubles that is depreciating in value over time?
Russian sanctions boomerang effect means a year of stagnation for Europe in 2024
The boomerang effect of the Russian sanctions on the EU member states is having a mixed impact. Germany, France and Italy are worst affected as the pain from the changes in energy and input supplies impact their economies, dragging them down into recession, while the less dependent on Russia like Spain and Portugal are already showing signs of recovery, according to ING analysis.
Overall Europe is headed for a year of stagnation that could be worse than in 2023. By contrast Russia reported growth of 3.5%, according to the preliminary results. And on January 18, an ebullient Russian President Vladimir Putin said that growth could come in at over 4% after revisions. The Russian Ministry of Finance (MinFin) also revised its GDP growth outlook for 2024 up to 3.5%, much improved from the earlier Central Bank of Russia (CBR) forecasts of around 2% for this year.
Currently, sanctions seem to be doing more harm to Europe than they are to Russia.
Russia sanctioned-proof themselves in anticipation of the consequences of invading Ukraine. They have long history and experience after all since the Soviet days of international sanctions. However, autarky always shows to only have short term effect but in the long run, the severe consequences always catches up in the end. Just look at how Soviet Union led to its eventual demise and the war in Afghanistan accelerated that collapse. The war in Ukraine will do the same to the current regime.
Conversely, even though the EU had been dependent on Russian fossil fuel before, the boomerang effect you mentioned is only short to medium term because disruption in trade is always expected during a war. But this only pushed the EU to import American gas and accelerate the EU Green New Deal to compensate for the loss of Russian gas and oil.
With Russia only having 1/5th the GDP of Italy and endemic corruption, the failure to subdue Ukraine is only going to eat at the Russian economy and political prestige. Even if Russia wins or gets concessions, it will be a Pyrrhic victory. Because loss of demographics (Russia is experiencing population decline before the war) will have severe consequences to the workforce and economy, the sanctions after the war will continue to hit the Russians, and the country will become more economically reliant to China and by extension politically as well. More importantly, the claim to stop NATO expansion just had the boomerang effect of just admitting two new nations into the alliance. With Russia tied in Ukraine, they loss influence in CSTO as member states resumed border clashes, especially with Armenia becoming frustrated on the issue of Nagorno-Karabakh.
“Getting hollowed out and left in the cold” has been Occupied Turtle Island’s modus operandi for what, the past 50 years if not longer? If I were to sit here and list out every country that the Five-Eyed Empire has couped, vassalized, weaponized, then cut loose, often with either a SEAL team or a drone-based execution of their leaders, I’d be here literally all fucking day.
This is just Zelenskyi’s government in Kyiv sacrificing everyone else to maintain the notion of a Ukrainian state for the wealthy elite who (coincidentally) live in Kyiv. Look at where the rich are. Look at where most conscripts are from.
Ukraine is split into the ultra wealthy (Kyiv), the moderately well-off (Dnipro, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia, Kharkiv), and everywhere else (which is remarkably poor). Kyiv has more than double the GDP/capita of the next richest administrative region. This war devastates the eastern economic centers and solidifies power in Kyiv… And for what?
Ukrainian nationalism have sent hundreds of thousands of men and women to their death for no clear gains. Now, they want to send hundreds of thousands more, because the lives of Ukrainians mean nothing to the people in the white ivory towers of Kyiv. Is the sacrifice of more Ukrainian lives worth it to pursue the Western ideal of crushing Russia (so that the West can collectively focus on the Middle East and China instead)?
They had a peace deal laid out in front of them. That peace deal was orders better than the status quo today, nevermind where the war will be a year from now.
They shoud limit the deathtoll by suing for peace instead of continuing to send peoples dying in a war they can’t win. How is it such a hot take to you that humman lives are more important than imaginary lines on a map?
You know who could limit or remove that deathtoll really quick? That would be russia, you know, the ones who rolled into a country with war on their minds and started the whole deathtoll thing.
Why do you expect anybody else to act here? Or is russia untouchable in your view?
This is pure wishfull thinking. It doesn’t matter what you or I want or would like to happen, a country that is decisively winning a war wont just stop and go home before having secured a peace deal from the other side. This idea that Russia could simply leave is not realistic. Russia would suffer a net loss if they withdrew for no reason like this, and the Russian politicians obviously wont chose that when they already realized most of their military objectives. Ukraine on the other hand has litteraly no reason to keep fighting. It can’t be overstated: they are losing. Dispite all of the military aid from the US and EU and all the economic sanctions on Russia, the frontline has bearly moved since the strikes on Kiev; even being so generous that you ignore the fact that Russia hasn’t commited nearly has much to the war as Ukraine did proportionally, the situation could only be described at best as a standstill. Now, after almost two years of war, Russia has successfully wiggled out of western sanctions, now selling/buying to India and China most of what they used to sell/buy to Europe, Western aid to Ukraine have dwindled hard, with the US’s contribution, Ukraine’s biggest supplier until recently, being now a pitifull fraction of what it was in 2022. Not to mention that multiple western countries have admited that they ran out of things to send to Ukraine and are starting to shift their attention away from it anyway with the Israel stuation. With all of that and the failure of the 2023 counteroffencive Ukraine definitely lost any chance of winning the war.
At this point, all Ukraine is doing by continuing to send soldiers to the meatgrinder is increasing the deathtoll for nothing. The war will end with Russia taking The Donbass, Luhansk, and possibly the whole coast, regardless of how many zeros the Ukrainian deathtoll has. The only REALISTIC thing that can put an end to the war is a peace deal on Russia’s terms. Now matter how much you say that “Russia could just stop”, that’s not happening.
It’s also importent to be aware that there would never have been a war in the first place without western meddleing. As soon as the maidan coup happened the region was doomed for conflict, the west stirred up conflict on purpose with the hope of weakening Russia without them having to fight directly. Russia tried to propose deals with Ukraine that would only impose them to stay neutral and not get involved with NATO, Ukraine often showed iterest in signing, but every time, some western politician flew to where the talks were happening and for some reason Ukraine changed their mind just after. Pretending that only Russia is at fault is ignorant of the geopolitical situation in the region, as expected from westerners who probably didn’t even know Ukraine existed before 2022.
Fucking thank you. When i tried to say that this current war had some historical context of US/nato meddling, i was called a tankie.
I don’t even care for or support either side, i simply said it has a historical context, the same as the 7 october attacks in Israel had a historical context.
Finaly a non communist aware that the war started for actual geopolitical reasons and not just because Putin is evil. That’s a rare sight around here.
Don’t mind the tankie calling to much, it has become a miningless term radlibs call litteraly anyone they disagree with, just like how right winger call everyone they disagree with “woke” or “SJW”. I’ve seen some of these clowns call anarchists and even right wingers tankies, no joke.
Thanks, being called a tankie didn’t bother me. It just took me by surprise because i wasn’t even saying anything untrue.
Honestly I’m learning more from hexbear and lemmygrad than lemmy.world, amongst others. I had a vague idea about the geopolitics and history of certain areas but the posts and discussions on there really shed a lot of light on that. And a lot is freely available information if you want to search for it. On the other instance they’ll rather spit venom at each other than exchange information.
Ok, not everyone is bad on lemmy.world, but I’ve come across the most hateful, asinine users there.
And, yeah, although there is your occasional resonable folks like yourself .world especialy and lemmy.ml to a somewhat lesser extent are very full of “scratched liberals” as the saying goes.
So you’re just going to ignore the fact that this all started as a simultaneous result of the Five-Eyed Empire blatantly flouting the Minsk Accords multiple times, and then couping the last Ukranian president to install a neonazi regime; all to the end of letting NATO encircle and exterminate Russia. You’re literally worthless to discuss geopolitics with if you just approach from a settler’s tabula rasa.
Ah yes. Those mystical neonazis. Flouting you say! Oh my. Not flouting! Definitely a reason to invade and level towns. Just, you know, flouting with cruise missles. Te-he. Totally.
Russia can try all the gaslighting they want, but the true fact is that Russia invaded. Not NATO. Not Ukraine. They don’t like the war. They can leave.
Plus, only reason NATO is expanding is because Russia is a shitty neighbor. They should try being less a shitty dictatorship. Oh and not invade other countries. Pretty easy…
Russia started this war shooting elementary schools with tanks and launching rocket strikes on hospitals. Do you really think this is just about “the western ideal” of crushing Russia? If you want to see why Ukraine is fighting so hard to not become part of Russia, just look at how shitty Russia has been to its soldiers and people during this war.
Do you really think this is just about “the western ideal” of crushing Russia?
It obviously is. This is what the Anglo Empire’s wanted since the end of World War 2. This is how they’ve been maneuvering NATO ever since it was headed up by the Nazis they saved from Nuremberg and Mossad. Donetsk and Luhansk voted democratically to join Russia; so it’s kind of showing how hypocritical you settlers are about democracy, considering how much materiel came from the West to genocide those who did choose Russia.
“No no no, democracy only counts when we cosign it”-headasses, willing to coup and genocide anybody if it means your order perpetuates. It frankly sickens me you’d try and bullshit that it could be anything else; but I rly don’t know why I expect any better from settler stains.
Just replace Ukraine in this post with russia and you have the true facts. Incredible this projection thing, always the same with fascists like you, always blame others of what you do and want.
ukraine has put off counter attacks because the loss of life isnt worth it, they wait so they can get better equipment. compare that to russia who uses it soldiers as meatgrinders
Ukraine isn’t fighting “crush Russia” or “consolidate power,” they are fighting to exist as a nation. They are fighting to not be part of Russia, and if you claim Russia doesn’t consolidate wealth into a small few while sacrificing their poor as cannon fodder, you’re unabashedly lying.
Now, do Western nations take advantage of this to severely weaken with no personal loss of life or territory? Absolutely. But just because it benefits the West doesn’t mean it doesn’t also benefit Ukraine.
Ukrainian nationalism as a concept is something that has always been a Kyiv-centered idea. This is true stretching back to the Russian Revolution, as well. The concept of Ukraine as an independent state has always been Kyiv’s idea.
Tell me you don’t understand Russian history without telling me you don’t understand Russian history.
Russia wouldn’t be rolling in if NATO didn’t decide to turn Ukraine into the world’s most Nazified hand-puppet. Y’know, to encircle and exterminate Russia, in direct breach of the Minsk Accords.
tl;dr Occupied Turtle Island being the same oathbreaking settler trash they’ve been for the last 400 years started this. It could be ended just as easy; but oathbreaking settler trash can’t abide that!
All 12 original points of Minsk 1, all 5 points of the followup, and all 13 points of Minsk 2 by Ukraine’s ongoing genocide of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts and the receipt(and usage) of NATO materiel. NATO is implicated despite not being a signatory due to being involved in the flouting by way of providing aid and comfort to the government that couped Poroshenko on Occupied Turtle Island’s command, delivering them materiel and troops, and by all rights encouraging the ongoing meat-grindering of the region.
Understand that I will not be arguing with the kinds of people that John Brown would have shot; a number in which I count you, given your cheerleading the murder of one set of Nazi-infiltrated sovereign citizens to attempt and fail to destroy another sovereign nation on behalf of Anglo-American slavemasters.
Uh, because they are all within one nation. They identify as Ukrainians.
You could transmute your statement to any other nation and it would be the same. Why do the people in Archangelsk fight for Moscow? Why do the people in Wichita fight for Washington?
Tribalism is an innate feature of the human experience.
I never said that Ukrainians must only identify as Ukrainians, just that it is the reason why folks outside of Kyiv choose to fight. Do not put words into my mouth.
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