Sam_Bass, Guessing none of the other nations are doing anything either
LemonLord, Time to end the war and give peace a chance.
ahriboy, Yeah, giving the five bordering regions of Russia to Ukraine, including Belgorod would be the best compensation.
Thordros, Yeah, that tends to happen when you get you provoke a war then get your shit stomped. All this could have been avoided if the West kept their dick out of the former Eastern Bloc over the last couple decades, but they didn’t, and this is where we ended up. We fucked up their country, and they get to pay the consequences for our actions.
The “I’m not hitting you! I’m not hitting you! Look! I’m not hitting you, nyah nyah!.. mmMMMMOOOOOMMMMMMMM HE HIT ME! HE STARTED IT!” defense doesn’t work if you’re a fucking country.
PosadistInevitablity, Unfortunately for the Ukrainian people, this attitude you and the rest of the West hold has lead them to utter disaster.
If you could back it up with actual military success, it’d be reasonable.
But instead, all of Europe and the US is about to lose to post Soviet Russia, and Ukraine has paid the price.
grey, Well that sucks.
mihor, It doesn’t suck. Well, it does for the west.
DavidDoesLemmy, Which Congress?
john89, Which do you think?
DavidDoesLemmy, The Central Australian Aboriginal Congress?
Enfors, Exactly. People need to remember that this is the Internet, not their home country. We don’t know where you’re from.
john89, You can use your powers of deductive reasoning to come to the correct answer.
Or maybe you can’t… lol.
stringere, There are two types of people. Those who can extrapolate a conclusion from an incomplete data set and
Assian_Candor,
Yor, Without the support of Congress, it will be “difficult” for Ukraine to win, “even to stay,” Zelenskyy said in a video meeting with fundraising supporters, including Mark Hamill and billionaire Richard Branson.
Nightmare blunt rotation
Anyway, wow! You mean every time Russia was said to be slowing down or taking unsustainable levels of casualties wasn’t entirely true? Wow! surprised-pika
Guamer, Do they mean that Mark Hamill?
gun, The Luke Skywalker one? Yes. Notorious shitlib
Guamer, Not shocking being a Hollywood guy, though I do really like his work as Luke/The Jonkler
Thordros, Everyone’s allowed a couple problematic faves. My favorite turn-brain-off movie is still Anchorman, even though they drop their first R-word about 90 seconds into the film.
mihor, Not just a shitlib but also a (probably inadvertent) nazi supporter.
idkmybffjoeysteel, He stans Israel so uniroincally yes he does support actual Nazis.
caveman, That was propaganda. Without it people would say “why wasting money if they will lose anyway?”
420stalin69, I think the weakness of Ukraine is also narrative.
Whatever narrative they push, it’s completely unrelated to the truth.
When they wanted western sympathy and when the western funds were rolling, it was the plucky tractor brigade killing Russians at $1.40 a kill.
Now that they aren’t getting another aid package, the front lines are about to collapse and Russia will be in Warsaw by summer.
It’s all bullshit. As in it’s unrelated to the truth. The truth has no relationship to what Zelenskyy says.
The fact Ukraine is starting to push an imminent collapse narrative is a key factor in me believing collapse is not in fact imminent.
dragonfly4933, You are right, you can’t use only information Ukraine or Russia provides. But it probably is the case that Ukraine was stomping Russia for pennies on the dollar earlier in the war. However, Russia is not a static force. They learn and change their tactics, and Russia spends more resources now than they did earlier.
It would be a grave mistake to stop aid to Ukraine while they are still willing and able to fight.
420stalin69, But it probably is the case that Ukraine was stomping Russia for pennies on the dollar earlier in the war.
When the aid was flowing the narrative was that this was a “good investment” which is why they sold you with this “pennies on the dollar” angle.
Put down the slava pipe and have a look at what the cost basis is for western military gear vs Russian stuff. It’s rarely better than 5:1 even for basic stuff like shells and advanced stuff runs at around 10:1. The idea that it was “pennies on the dollar” is crazy shit.
It’s all narrative. It doesn’t have a relationship to facts on the ground. It’s a sales pitch.
spidermanchild, “Pennies on the dollar” refers more to the fact that we have mostly sent old equipment that’s already paid for and would otherwise never see the light of day, while also avoiding the use of any US/NATO manpower to massively undermine an adversary. It’s a great deal, i.e. pennies on the dollar.
I guess it’s edifer to just call everything a “narrative” though than try and understand current events.
Fidel_Cashflow, It’s a great deal if you’re a monster who doesn’t pay any mind to the broken Ukrainian bodies littering the trenches for the past few years. More conscripts for the meat grinder, it’s cost-effective! Fucking ghouls, I swear.
spidermanchild, And who’s to blame here? Have you considered blaming the invading force, or does it have to be the west for your sensibilities? Everything would be great if we all just rolled over when invaders arrive at the gates!
davel, It would be a grave mistake to stop aid to Ukraine while they are still willing and able to fight.
While who is still willing to fight? The conscripted who are forced to fight or the neonazis who volunteered to fight?
Zuzak, pennies on the dollar
Psychopathic framing. “Look how efficiently we’re killing people!”
Also great example of conflating states with people. Maybe Ukraine still wants to fight, but Ukrainians are being conscripted against their will. In the same way, wearing Russia down may serve the interests of the US government, but it certainly doesn’t benefit the American people in any way. The best thing for the Ukrainian people would be to stop the killing at any cost, even if it meant territorial concessions. They could’ve saved countless lives if they’d done this from the start, and eventually that’s what’s going to happen anyway, but unfortunately countless people have died and countless more will before the ruling class decides to stop forcing the poor into the meat grinder.
How the fuck is my life supposed to be better because of dead Russian soldiers?
stringere, Hey that’s a nice home you have. We’re moving in. You can fight me for it but it will be long and bloody. Probably best you just move out and concede it to me.
PosadistInevitablity, The West has spent many times Russias military budget and hundreds of thousands of soldiers only to lose the war.
Russia will likely gain several states worth of land.
Unsure how this is a “good deal”, even in the most psychopathic framing possible. I’d think that would mean Russia is getting the good deal in that case? They have spent far less and gained actual winnings.
Halosheep, “The west has spent many times Russia’s military budget” Source?
unreasonabro, nice job america, now in addition to everything else, you’ve lost a war you weren’t even fighting in. Fuck yeah!
rbesfe, Are you implying Ukraine has lost the war? That’s just not true, they still hold territory that according to Putin is part of Russia
087008001234, No, I think they’re just responding to the headline.
rbesfe, “you have lost” is past tense
Karyoplasma, Yes, “you have lost” is present perfect and describes that the loss occurred at some unspecified point in time before. It can also describe a loss which effects can still be felt in the present.
The implication is that OP is convinced that Ukraine has no chance of holding their lines, as you correctly pointed out earlier.
ShimmeringKoi, “Lol”, said the red white and blue scorpion. “Lmao”.
AFC1886VCC, Countries will get fed up of sending aid to Ukraine long before Russia decides to return its annexed territories. We’re already seeing signs of that.
If NATO isn’t willing to go in and force the Russians out themselves, I fail to see how this war is anything but a net gain for Russia. They will just sit back and let their “new territories” become more and more Russified.
To me, the aid is just a delaying tactic to allow Ukraine to continue fighting until the west can figure out a way to accept that Ukraine has lost its territories without losing face.
It’s a shit show, but I don’t share the optimism that a lot of people have for a Ukrainian victory. It’s like a game of chess, and it’s currently Ukraine/NATOs turn, because the Russians are already dug in.
caveman, Ukraine=Palestine. Noone will fight for ir and will get robbed by the powerful bandit, Israel (Rússia).
Except that US politicians pretend it’s the opposite
davel, Ukraine=Palestine and Israel=Russia is peak Marvel brain.
soggy_kitty, Germany=Britain
Semi_Hemi_Demigod, Benin=Lichtenstein
TokenBoomer, Yakub = Jesus
BurgerPunk, But have you considered Zelenskyyyyyyy = Iron Man and Putin = Thanos? Probably not. Back to your echo chamber now tankie smuglord
davel, (edited ) The echo chamber/bubble trope is hilarious because we’re exposed to exactly the same media they are. They’re working with a subset of the information we are and then say we’re in a bubble.
BurgerPunk, For libs, its only propaganda if they disagree with it. If they agree with it then its just objective facts and journalism so-true
BrokenGlepnir, I think it’s more Ukraine = Czechcoslovakia, Russia = Nazi Germany. Every justification russia has given I heard germany give in 1938.
InputZero, What’s Marvel brain? I tried looking it up but just got a bunch of marvel characters with large heads.
davel, (edited ) Idealist, cartoonish, black & white, good vs. evil thinking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_are_either_with_us%2C_or_against_us thinking.
Imperial core governments and the corporate media present to us a cartoonish, Marvel Cinematic Universe version of the world that serves the capitalist class’ interests, particularly their imperialist interests. Inventing Reality and Manufacturing Consent laid this out almost 40 years ago.
Ukraine=good=democracy, Russia=bad=authoritarian. Russia’s invasion was unprovoked because history began on Feb. 24, 2022. Russia is doing genocide (bullshit), never mind the previous decade of Ukraine-backed neonazis genociding the people of the Donbas; or that, for 30 years, people from Noam Chomsky to Jeffrey Sachs to Henry Kissinger warned against breaking our promise not to expand NATO eastward toward Russia. Russia is an oligarchy, never mind Ukraine’s oligarchic coup government that the US installed a decade ago. Ukraine is a democracy, never mind that it has suspended opposition parties and cancelled elections.
robinn_IV, It’s absolutely absurd to compare the Western settler colony of Israel’s “relationship” with Palestine to the Russia’s relationship with Ukraine. Israel, since its inception, has been oriented towards the subjugation, displacement, and slaughter of Palestinians as a whole, whereas Russia is responding to Western-backed Nazi aggressors. Investigate Operation Aerodynamic, NATO’s Operation Gladio, the US and Nazi role in the 2014 coup, hell what do you mean nobody will fight for Ukraine? The CIA have trained soldiers and there has been billions sent in aid by the US.
420stalin69, Donbas = Palestine if Palestine had a powerful friend to kick Israel out of Gaza.
ShimmeringKoi, I mean yeah, the Russian Federation has clearly won this one
rbesfe, Over 100k dead Russians isn’t really a “net victory” regardless of territory gained
BurgerPunk, (edited ) They will just sit back and let their “new territories” become more and more Russified.
The majority people who live there and have always lived there are Russian
It’s like a game of chess,
No it really isn’t. Its a proxy war forced by US aggression (2014 coup and NATO encirlement). The US achieved its primary goals - 1) to stop its European vassals (primarily Germany) from gaining energy independence through trade with the Russian Federation and get them back in line 2) to sell old weapon stocks/war profiteering for defense industry and make room for new weapons stores/more profits for defense industry.
The fact they’ve met these goals is the main reason why funding will stop, because there is no reason to fund Ukraine anymore. The US has won - Ukraine was always going to lose in this scenario.
Zuzak, NATO is seeking to take control of decision-making powers on future aid packages — normally led by the US — in an effort to limit the impact of a potential second Donald Trump presidency on the ongoing conflict.
This is wild. It’s bad enough that the US president has the power to start wars wherever he wants with no congressional approval. But now they’re trying to make it so that the only people with the authority to withdraw from a conflict are unelected NATO officials accountable to no one.
Dronies will support this, because they love endless war across the globe and want to remove any potential for popular support to achieve peace.
humbletightband, And who’s gonna die this time
ManniSturgis, Alright, how do I block all those russian puppets from lemmy.ml?
SomethingBurger, You can block lemmy.ml and hexbear.net to considerably improve your Lemmy experience.
vger, ok but y r u here tho
poke, There are plenty of good Lemmy communities that aren’t on those instances. I don’t blanket block them personally, but I understand those who do.
kaffiene, Someone has to downvote you
kookaburra, You could easily achive your goal by going back to reddit, there’s nothing wrong with it. Seems like federated international community hosted by enthusiasts is just not your cup of tea. Centralized platform which goes to IPO would be able to provide you with echo chamber that you seek for.
TheLepidopterists, The modern American fascist is too soft to hear dissenting opinions.
frauddogg, Sweet as lemon poundcake and softer than corduroy
Xavienth, Go back to Reddit and have your opinions fed to you by billion dollar corporations
davel, Folks, Holden Caulfield thinks we’re phonies. Mission failed; we’ll get ’em next time.
Copypasta from lemmy.ml/comment/9279492
- IT Pro: Cambridge Analytica models were exaggerated and ineffective, [UK Information Commissioner’s Office] claims
- Wall Street Journal: Mueller Doesn’t Find Trump Campaign Conspired With Russia
- Jacobin: Democrats and Mainstream Media Were the Real Kremlin Assets
- Washington Post: FEC fines DNC, Clinton for violating rules in funding Steele dossier
- Washington Post: Russian trolls on Twitter had little influence on 2016 voters
- Jacobin: It Turns Out Hillary Clinton, Not Russian Bots, Lost the 2016 Election
- Matt Taibbi: Move Over, Jayson Blair: Meet Hamilton 68, the New King of Media Fraud The Twitter Files reveal that one of the most common news sources of the Trump era was a scam, making ordinary American political conversations look like Russian spywork
- Jacobin: Why the Twitter Files Are in Fact a Big Deal On the Left, there’s been a temptation to dismiss the revelations about Twitter’s internal censorship system that have emerged from the so-called Twitter Files project. But that would be a mistake: the news is important and the details are alarming.
- MSNBC Repeats Hamilton 68 Lies 279 Times in 11 Minutes
- Jeff Gerth at Columbia Journalism Review on Russiagate: Editor’s Note | Part one | Part two | Part three | Part four
- Matt Taibbi: WMD, Part II: CIA “Cooked The Intelligence” To Hide That Russia Favored Clinton, Not Trump In 2016
- Chris Hedges: Why Russiagate Won’t Go Away
Hestia, Eat shit
Tankiedesantski, “It may be dangerous to be America’s enemy, but to be America’s friend is fatal.”
zeh_ahoi, deleted_by_moderator
Tankiedesantski, Hahaha I get it. It’s funny because the people you don’t like are implied to be women.
zeh_ahoi, deleted_by_moderator
idkmybffjoeysteel, I am nowhere near terminally online enough to understand a word of what you just said
Zuzak, girls dressing like men
As a transfem in a situation where I frequently have to present as a guy: thanks? heartbreaking
CyborgMarx, Lose away bozo, you got played
BlueMagaChud, will the neonazis kill him right away or wait til he has been living in Miami for awhile?
frauddogg, My money’s on ‘on the airstrip trying to flee’.
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