@kernellogger@fosstodon.org
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

kernellogger

@kernellogger@fosstodon.org

Mainly tooting about #Linux the #kernel and things related to the #LinuxKernel – e.g. #bootloader, #compiler, #git, #glibc, #mesa, #qemu, #xorg, #X11, #wayland, and other stuff in the 'plumbing' layer.

Opinions are my own.

Topic account. Other accounts of mine:

https://social.linux.pizza/@knurd42 (EN): #FLOSS, #Fedora as well as Life, the Universe and Everything
https://norden.social/@thleemhuis (DE): Das Leben, das Universum und der ganze Rest
https://social.tchncs.de/@thleemhuisfoss (DE): #FLOSS

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kernellogger, to linux
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

The @LWN article on 6.9 development statistics is now freely available: https://lwn.net/Articles/972605/

'"[…] we are happy to launch the LWN Kernel Source Database as an experimental, subscriber-only feature. Much of the information found in these articles is available there, along with quite a bit more. We encourage readers to play with the system and to let us know what they think. To be clear: there is no plan to stop publishing these articles anytime soon […]"'

kernellogger, to linux
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

The @LWN article about the latest push of the extensible scheduler class (or "") for is now freely available: https://lwn.net/Articles/972710/

"'[…] Despite having attracted a fair amount of interest from the development community, sched_ext has run into considerable opposition and seems far from acceptance into the mainline. The posting by Tejun Heo of a new version of the sched_ext series at the beginning of May has restarted this long-running discussion[…]'"

ljs, to random
@ljs@social.kernel.org avatar

My lad @kernellogger is a good lad.

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@vbabka @ljs

😬

Side note: I doubt there is a "truth" to be found anywhere in that area 🥴 😬 😂

/me runs

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@ljs @vbabka

people are people – and "don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you" is something easily said, but hard to realize in practise (I guess we all occasionally fail in that area…).

kernellogger, (edited ) to linux
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

Not sure what this human tried to achieve with the private reply[1] shown in the screenshot, but somehow it made me smile and brightened up my day. 😄

[1] a reply to a regression tracking mail I sent yesterday: https://lore.kernel.org/all/83df4e94-e1ec-42f6-8a15-6439ef4a25b7@leemhuis.info/

vwbusguy, to linux
@vwbusguy@mastodon.online avatar

I wonder if has some kind of minimal and/or way to run x86 applications on an host, similar to Rosetta for MacOS or the similar WIP Microsoft compatibility.

kernellogger, (edited )
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@vwbusguy

/me wonders if libkrun and related things @slp is working on to allow x86 games to run fits the bill here, but might be mistaken

gromit, to archlinux
@gromit@chaos.social avatar

@kernellogger we got some regression reports in the #archlinux bugtracker popping up now that 6.9.1 was released to our repos!

I'll take care of getting the reports into an actionable state and let the reporters shoot you mails or forward them myself 😊

https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/packaging/packages/linux/-/issues

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@gromit

great, many thx.

Quick reminder (as that often is a problem when it comes to bugs first reported to distro trackers): try to ensure the report works stand alone and carries all relevant information directly. Or IOW: the report should work without a link to a downstream tracker (including one of course is fine!)

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@gromit

what are you actually referring to? the "git branches with regression fixes not yet mainlined" idea? Yeah, there was some interest, but that for now is still just an idea.

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@gromit

ohh, yeah, now I understand; but ignore that, that's a very specific case where somebody is quite a bit overeager while at the same time missing the right tactfulness quite a few times.

lmb, to random
@lmb@fosstodon.org avatar

@kernellogger I seem to remember that you tooted (tweeted?) a url which gives one a JSON with all sort of useful info given a Linux commit hash. Something with penguin in the name. Does that ring a bell?

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@lmb

It does, I guess you are looking for https://kernel.dance/#f342de4e2f33e0e39165d8639387aa6c19dff660

kernellogger, to linux
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

Jeremy Allison writes:

'" The data shows that “frozen” vendor kernels, created by branching off a release point and then using a team of engineers to select specific patches to back-port to that branch, are buggier than the upstream “stable” Linux created by Greg Kroah-Hartman. '"

https://ciq.com/blog/why-a-frozen-linux-kernel-isnt-the-safest-choice-for-security/

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@bluca

Well, to claim "kernel maintainers don't care" you have to at least report the bug to them[1]. That afaics has not happened yet (or I could not find it).

"since 6.8 every btrfs device can no longer be mounted by systemd": then why was this only noticed 2+ months after a release with that commit went out? This raises the question: what kind of problem did users actually run into?

[1] yes, sure, ideally they would have done a code search first, but we are all imperfect…

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@pavel

reg. the "distros want no-regressions, not no-bugs":

from my point of view the whole situation could be a lot better if distros would spend some of the money they currently invest in CI instead invest in working on workflow improvements and some others stuff to ensure regressions do not happen in the first place or are quickly resolved.

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@bluca

reg. bug reporting:

https://docs.kernel.org/admin-guide/reporting-issues.html

https://docs.kernel.org/admin-guide/reporting-regressions.html

Some of it does not apply in this case.

I also make sure to handle regressions that are submitted to bugzilla.kernel.org

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@felix @bluca

duty? no!

nice behaviour, cooperative, up to some point kinda expected, and what most people do: sure.

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@bluca

and thx for the link to the debian bug tracker; but I want to see more details first what went wrong there, as I'd expect it would be pretty unlikely that this is the first debian btrfs user that updated to 6.8 or higher; so why did it break for that user, but apparently not for the others?

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@thefossguy @pavel

There is no easy answer here, as it are lots of details; but there is a decent chance I need to write this up soon anyway; if I do, I'll get back to you!

kernellogger, (edited )
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@bluca

thx, yeah, I already have been watching that.

1/ FWIW, I think you owe the kernel developers an apology, as you made a lot of noise and claimed "kernel maintainers don't care", when they clearly do once the problem was properly reported -- and quite quickly even. And yes, sure, in the ideal world they would have cared some more and performed a code-search before removing this option to prevent it in the first place. But we are all imperfect and make mistakes. Same for @pid_eins, who…

kernellogger, (edited )
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@bluca @pid_eins

2/ …wrote "And my main beef here is that they claim they wouldnt do it ever..."[1], as that is not even true. They often try changes or removals to see if it breaks something – and if it does, it's reverted. Even the removal of the support for the original i386 was handled like that by Linus himself.

[1] https://mastodon.social/

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@pid_eins @bluca

the exact relevant rule is just "no regressions", nothing more. Everything else is just left to the interpretation by people (in typical Linus manner you might say). 🥴

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@pid_eins @bluca

hmmm:

$ grep -ri 'no regressions' Documentation/ | wc -l
13

$ grep -ri 'not break userspace' Documentation/ | wc -l
0

Also:

"WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE": 2 hits – https://lore.kernel.org/all/?q=f%3ATorvalds+%22WE+DO+NOT+BREAK+USERSPACE%22

"no regresssions": 44 hits –https://lore.kernel.org/all/?q=f%3ATorvalds%20%22no%20regressions%22

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@SchwarzeLocke @pid_eins

there are various things that can work and I guess it depends on the situation what reasonable and effective.

For the kernel I something think "add delays (together with a msg in the logs) that grow longer and longer over time when people use deprecated stuff, at some point people get curious and will investigate" might be something that might help, OTOH it's a kind of stupid idea 😂

kernellogger, to linux
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

Now merged for #Linux 6.10 as part of the main media merge[1]:

[1] https://git.kernel.org/torvalds/c/6fd600d742744dc7ef7fc65ca26daa2b1163158a

zzywysm, to random
@zzywysm@hachyderm.io avatar

Hey @kernellogger i wanted you to see this evidence of a possible regression in 6.8, an arm64 fpsimd commit may have caused a dm_crypt corruption issue: https://github.com/tpwrules/nixos-apple-silicon/issues/200

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@zzywysm

Sure. But seems my message came not across, so let me rephrase:

Could anybody quickly test what I asked for earlier?

Want me to escalate his? I'm happy to do that, but then I become a man-in-the-middle, which has benefits and downsides.

kernellogger,
@kernellogger@fosstodon.org avatar

@zzywysm

added a comment to that bug, thx for pointing me there

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