@pmonks@sfba.social
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

pmonks

@pmonks@sfba.social

Pronouns: he/him/his
Living on Yelamu Ramaytush Ohlone land (#SanFrancisco)
Searchable via https://tootfinder.ch/

All original content licensed CC-BY-NC-SA-4.0.

This is an authoritarian (both left- and right- flavours), bigot, MAGA, TERF, tankie, anti-vaxxer, climate-change-denier etc. free zone. Conservatives and libertarians should be on their best behaviour too - I have a small amount of patience for your nonsense, and a large block button.

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QasimRashid, to random
@QasimRashid@mastodon.social avatar

A quick history lesson. From 1940-1980:
•Wealthiest paid 70-94% marginal tax
•0 of them went broke from taxation
•0 of them left USA
•All remained exceedingly wealthy
•Manufacturing boomed
•The middle class was 62% of US economy (It's now 40% post 'trickle down scamenomics)
•We had the strongest middle class growth in US History

Let's do that again. Stop protecting billionaires. Start taxing them.

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo are you disputing that you wrote that toot, or are you disputing that your statement in that toot (“these people where wealth concentrates are also the people resonsible for creating much of that same wealth.”) describes trickle down economics?

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo the argument that the wealthy predominantly create wealth is literally describing trickle down economics.

You don’t have to take my word for it - for example here’s the top non-ad result I just got on Google for the search “definition of trickle down economics”: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/trickledowntheory.asp

The first paragraph reads:

“Trickle-down economics and its policies employ the theory that tax breaks and benefits for corporations and the wealthy will trickle down and eventually benefit everyone.”

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo again, you did say that, here: https://qoto.org/@freemo/110269174381291162

First paragraph:
“What your missing is these people where wealth concentrates are also the people resonsible for creating much of that same wealth.”

And as I said a few minutes ago, this isn’t even true - small businesses contribute more to the economy (i.e. the creation of wealth) than the wealthy do.

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo as others have said elsewhere in this thread, the wealthy largely obtain that wealth by skimming the difference between the value of what their employees produce, and what they pay those employees. That’s not “generating wealth”, it’s exploitation.

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo but that said, I think I see where some of the disconnect is coming from. You view “wealth” narrowly as personal property, whereas I view it as one aspect of the overall economy, and where the question of how it is distributed has profound implications for the health of that economy.

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo that’s not a very convincing argument you have there.

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo so then explain to me how concentrating wealth in a relatively small %age of the population benefits the economy. I’m open to the possibility that I’ve missed an important detail.

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo others in this thread already replied to you with those details. I can go back and dig out their bases if you wish but I (perhaps mistakenly) assumed you wouldn’t be that pedantic.

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo yet you keep arguing in favour of the wealthy concentrating their wealth. I can only explain this to you; I can’t understand it for you.

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo I followed all of those side threads and nowhere did you provide any compelling counter-arguments.

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo correct - that’s my point, which I’ve attempted to support with credible evidence.

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo then let me paraphrase what I think your position is, you can correct it, and we can continue from there.

My understanding of your position is:

“The wealthy generate much of the wealth in society in a just fashion, should be allowed to retain most or all of that wealth for themselves, and there are no substantial negative societal ramifications of them doing so.”

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo that’s a bit rich, given that you keep confusing who is making which argument.

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo ok I understood it after all, despite your earlier comments to the contrary, or …?

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo ah yes I see it now. For some reason some of your replies don’t show up in my notifications - I have to go back and manually walk the thread to see them.

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo ok good clarifications and I’d like to understand more. For starters, what, in your opinion, would be a reasonable tax system, not only for the wealthy but for the entire socioeconomic spectrum?

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo how do you avoid hoarding by the wealthy? Recall that almost all of their income is disposable, so disincentivizing spending (as a spending tax would do) reduces their spending (and consumer spending, at least in the US, is a major driver of the economy).

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo most of these write offs are only obtainable if you’re wealthy though, so no they’re not “available to everyone” in any meaningful way @MikeBon

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo for example one can’t claim charitable donation deductions if one is living paycheck-to-paycheck and deciding whether to pay rent or utilities this month - there’s no disposable income available to be making such donations @MikeBon

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo not at all. If a wealthy person doesn’t pursue legal loopholes to the tax code (such as charitable dedications), then they would have paid more in taxes. The “charitable” donation has very little to do with philanthropy and everything to do with retaining more personal wealth. @MikeBon

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo charitable donations (at least in the US) work by reducing income, which means it can shift someone into a lower tax bracket. That can save substantially more than the amount of the donation. @MikeBon

pmonks,
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@freemo regardless, you’re dodging the original point: that these kinds of deductions are not equally available to everyone @MikeBon

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@freemo the super rich have far more legal tax cheats at their disposal than just charitable donations - mechanisms that (to the original point) are not available to everyone @MikeBon

gregeganSF, to random
@gregeganSF@mathstodon.xyz avatar

When the ceiling fell on my iMac, it cracked the screen, which is a bit annoying when I’m streaming videos … but I’m glad it wasn’t a Deep Fracture that causes all documents I create on this machine to carry the same ineradicable scar out into the world wherever I send them.

pmonks,
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

@gregeganSF hella fracs, as The Youths would say

pmonks, to random
@pmonks@sfba.social avatar

Another amazing community garden - this one in Miraloma Park. It was only 2 or so years ago that this was a sad, empty lot full of dog poop.

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