Assistant DA Colangelo resumes his questioning, continuing the topic of the WSJ inquiry.
Q: Around this time, on Nov. 4, did you witness any phone conversations between Mr. Trump and Mr. Cohen?
A: Um. (pause) I believe I saw Mr. Trump speaking to Mr. Cohen shortly after the story was published.
[Me: And as Lawrence O'Donnell pointed out, something I posted separately a few ago]... When Hicks entered the courtroom and walked up to the witness stand, she did NOT look at Trump.
Prosecutor: Did you witness a call between Mr. Trump and Mr. Cohen about this?
Hicks: After Ohio we flew to Hershey PA and we were getting into car. I heard Mr. Trump, there is nothing memorable about the call
Prosecutor: Where did you start the day?
Hicks: Maine
Prosecutor: The story about Karen McDougal, it quoted you - can you read it?
Hicks: "We have no knowledge of any of this... untrue."
Prosecutor: Did Mr. Trump tell you to say that?
Hicks: That was the consensus.
Prosecutor: By Mr. Trump?
Hicks: No romantic affair
Prosecutor: I'm going to show up your grand jury testimony
Hicks: As I sit here now I don't have a strong memory of him telling me we have no knowledge. These were hectic conversations.
Prosecutor: It says, "Mr. Davidson also represented Stephanie Clifford"
Of the AMI agreement w/ McDougal, the campaign told WSJ: "We have no knowledge of any of this."
The denial about the affair was from Trump directly, Hicks says. But she's unsure if he specifically directed her to say that the campaign had no knowledge of the deal.
"I just don't want to say something definitively that I can't remember as I sit here right now," Hicks says.
[Me: 🤣👇🏼]
The next day, on Nov. 5, 2016, Cohen messaged Hicks: "So far I only see six stories..getting little to no traction."
"Keep praying!! It's working," Hicks said.
No one believes it and if necessary I have a statement from "Storm" denying everything and contradicting the other porn stars statement, Cohen replied. "I wouldn't use it now or even discuss it with him as no one is talking about this or care!"
14/ Bower:
Hicks says she doesn't think she knew what Cohen was talking about in reference to the "Storm" statement. She thought it might relate to a denial about an affair. But the story wasn't consuming the news cycle, and she didn't need to be aware of every detail.
Prosecutor: Mr. Cohen wrote he had a statement from Storm- what did you take that to mean?
Hicks: I didn't know and didn't know. I just wanted to blow past it & keep going.
👉🏼 I asked for David Pecker's number, Mr. Trump wanted to speak to him
Hicks: Mr. Trump was concerned how his wife would see it. He asked me to make sure the newspapers weren't delivered to their residence the next morning
Prosecutor: When did you start working in the White House?
Hicks: Jan 20, 2017. I left between 2018 and 2020
Hicks is really helping Trump. She testified of McDougal story that Trump was “concerned how it would be viewed by his wife.” And she said Trump asked her to make sure newspapers weren’t delivered to their residence that morning.
She also said she couldn’t recall if he asked her McDougal story would affect the campaign, but said Trump constantly asked her how things “were playing.”
At beginning of her time in WH, her desk was in outer Oval Off. The person who sat at the second desk there was Madeline Westerhout, Trump's executive assistant at the White House.
There came a time in Hicks' WH employment that the McDougal/Daniels stories resurfaced. In early 2018, the Wall Street Journal published a story about Stormy Daniels...And at some point that year, McDougal sued AMI to be released form her confidentiality agreement.
Madeleine Westerhout sat at the small desk and she was Trump's executive assistant and she looked after Mr. Trump's needs and worked on his schedule, kept his call logs, kept his messages and correspondence.
When Hicks became the Comms Director, she still spoke with Trump every day.
Prosecutor: Were you aware Karen McDougal sued AMI to be released from her non disclosure agreement?
Hicks: I've recently been refreshed.
Prosecutor: These text messages between you and Madeleine Westerhout, did your lawyer produce them under subpoena?
A: Yes
There came a time in Hicks' WH employment that the McDougal/Daniels stories resurfaced. In early 2018, the WSJ published a story about Stormy Daniels...And at some point that year, McDougal sued AMI to be released form her confidentiality agreement.
McDougal sued AMI on March 20, 2018. Colangelo displays text messages between Hicks and Madeline Westerhout, Trump's executive assistant. It's from the same day McDougal filed suit.
Now Colangelo turns to the Stormy Daniels story published by the Wall Street Journal on Jan. 12, 2018. It revealed that Cohen paid Daniels $130,000 to keep her from discussing her Trump affair story.
Hicks spoke to Cohen in the aftermath of the story. She remembers Cohen saying that it wasn't true, that no payment had been made, and that he had a statement from SD saying no payment had been made.
Trump is such a family man that he was cheating on the woman he was cheating on his wife with
erica orden:
Hicks is really helping Trump. She testified of McDougal story that Trump was “concerned how it would be viewed by his wife.” And she said Trump asked her to make sure newspapers weren’t delivered to their residence that morning.
Sometime in the middle of February, Hicks spoke to Trump about a conversation Trump had w/ Cohen about the Daniels payment. It was after Cohen gave a statement saying he made the payment w/o TRump's knowledge.
Hicks recounts a conversation with Trump where the then-president said "that Michael had paid (sigh) this woman to protect him from a false allegation."
Trump told her Cohen did so "from the kindness of his own heart and that he didn't tell anyone that it happened," she says.
She didn't buy it.
Hicks says that'd be "out of character for Michael."
"I didn't know Michael to be an especially charitable person or selfless person. [He's the] kind of person that seeks credit."
Trump told Hicks that Cohen had paid this woman to "protect him" from a false allegation. Trump said Cohen did it out of the kindness of his own heart, to protect him. Trump said it was a "generous" thing for Cohen to do.
Was this idea that Cohen did it out of the kindness of his own heart consistent with what you knew about Cohen?
"I didn't know Michael to be an especially charitable person or selfless person. He's the kind of person who seeks credit."
Trump's lawyer, Bove, asks for a break. Judge agrees. Jury steps out. Hicks exits the courtroom from the disguised side entrance—so do the prosecutors.
COUP DE GRAS from Hicks:
Hicks says Trump told her Cohen on his own paid Stormy to protect him- so Trump eventually learns of the hush money payoffs, on this telling, which means that later, labelling Trump's reimbursement payments as ongoing "legal fees" would be false.
Bonus: Hicks says it's not like Cohen to make the Stormy payments out of the goodness of his heart and to not take credit. Ie all the testimony about what a louse Cohen is plays into the DA's case.
Hicks returns to the witness stand once she collects herself.
She apologizes, and Bove resumes--or more accurately, begins--his cross examination.
You said the Trump Org was like a family business? Yes
You met the Trump family? Yes
Trump's children and wife? Yes
Engaged with Trump early on in your career there? Yes
You felt you had his trust and respect early in your career? Yes
Per our amazing adamreisstv
who is inside, it seems that Hicks got emotional at the moment Bove started to ask her about the fact that Trump family gave her an opportunity to work and she was so excited about that opportunity.
We move on to the campaign and, as ever, return to the subject of Michael Cohen.
Cohen was not part of the campaign, right?
He would try to insert himself at moments but he wasn’t on the campaign in any official capacity, Hicks explains.
Cohen did some stuff in voluntary capacity, Hicks cont's. He did some TV. He put together a diversity coalition at one point. But he had no official campaign role.
Bove: He went rogue at times?
Hicks: He did. He liked to call himself a fixer - only because he first broke it (laughs)
Trump's lawyer Bove: President Trump's calls with Mr. Pecker didn't stick out, because he often spoke with the press?
Hicks: Right. He does a good job maintaining relationships with the media even if are negative on him.
Bove: Campaigns promote themselves?
Yes.
Q: President Trump gives a lot of feedback, right?
A: He does.
She provides some examples.
Bove's gentle questioning sticks to the defense opening statement's theme: That there's nothing wrong with a campaign engaging with the media before an election.
"I wouldn't have a job if that was not a regular practice," Hicks says.
Trump's lawyer Bove: Campaigns do negative social media too, right?
👉🏼Hicks: I've only been on one campaign, and it was a great one.
Bove: Did you travel with a laptop, send many messages?
Hicks: Yes.
Bove: There were constant inquiries about negative stories?
Yes.
The contrast between Bove's feather-light and leather-gloved cross-examination of Hope Hicks — and his aggressive grilling of Keith Davidson, or even a custodial forensic witness — is remarkable.
Bove is making sure jurors see him drive a wedge between Cohen and the Trump presidential campaign, making Cohen seem like a self-interested, attention-hungry lawyer who kept screwing up everything he touched.
On Cohen: "He would try to insert himself at certain moments. But he wasn't supposed to be on the campaign in any official capacity. There were some things he did in a voluntary capacity because of his interest. He would sometimes appear on TV..."
Bove focuses his next line of inquiry on a core theme of the defense counter-narrative: That there’s nothing unusual about a campaign coordinating with friendly media entities; and that what AMI did for Trump is not really different from normal campaign/media relationship.
Trump's lawyer Bove: Getting together to discuss coverage wasn't strange, was it?
Hicks: It wasn't.
Bove: There was the leak of President Trumps tax ingo - you also met about that?
Hicks: Yes
Bove: On Oct 8, he was worried.
Hicks: Yes, how it'd been seen at home
BOVE: What made you think this was causing him stress?
HICKS: He really respects what [Melania] has to say and I know that was weighing on him. HICKS: “President Trump really values Mrs. Trump’s opinion.” She doesn’t weigh in all the time, but when she does, it’s “really meaningful.”
Bove asked Hicks's about testimony that Trump didn't want newspapers brought to the residence when McDougal story published.
"I don’t think he wanted anyone in his family to be hurt or embarrassed by anything that was happening on the campaign. He wanted them to be proud of him.”
Bove ends by asking whether she, working from the White House, had anything to do with business records at a building 200 miles away up in New York City.
Of course her answer is no.
The defense wants to make her seem irrelevant to the nuts and bolts of this case.
...w/o having to call Trump a liar, Hicks admitted the story Trump told her was a dubious one.
Perhaps even worse, during that same convo, Trump asked her how she thought the Times story was playing and wondered aloud whether it would have been better for the story to have come out during the campaign or when it had, concluding the real-life timing had been better.
That’s where the prosecutors’ direct examination of Hicks ended and within a minute or two, her emotions bubbled over.
Why Hicks is such a devastating witness against Trump: 1. Hicks makes clear Trump knew of the Cohen payoff scheme to Daniels.
2. Even if you believe his statement to her that he only learned after the fact.
3. Her testimony sinks Trump's defense since he is on record in a civil case admitting that he reimbursed Cohen the $130,000.
4. Hicks establishes that Trump knew that money was for Daniel's silence- not for the claimed legal fees for ongoing legal work by Cohen.
ansapphire.ap
13m
Trump slept with Stormy Daniels. Had a nine month affair with Karen McDougal. In which Trump convinced her Trump was in love with her. She discussed with friends she might be his next wife. At the same time Melania was home taking care of infant Barron. He did not care about Melania’s feelings.
After they leave, one more topic at hand: Sandoval.
Prosecutors want the ability to confront Trump about his gag order violations in this case on cross-examination if he testifies in this trial.
Todd Blanche argues against, hoping to avoid a "whole sideshow."
Blanche notes that the judge already allowed prosecutors to confront Trump on his gag order violations in the civil fraud case, which he says can serve the same purpose.
Prosecutor Colangelo says precedent is on their side.
Judge: "I agree with Mr. Blanche."
👉🏼He DENIES the prosecution's application here, finding that telling the jury that the judge in this case found him in contempt would be too prejudicial.
IOW, via Orden:
Merchan ruled that if Trump testifies, prosecutors can’t cross-examine him about Merchan’s finding of criminal contempt for violating the gag order.
@GottaLaff
Thank you so much for all this and letting us stay off the bird site. I usually follow in real time but today had to catch up and wow, what a lot of work you do.
But I would like to see the texts and calls she made or other steps taken to stop the newspaper delivery.
@GottaLaff
Thank you for your hard work today bringing us insight and commentary on this important trial. This may be the only prosecution allowed to happen before next November’s crucial election and, sadly, as it’s a federal trial, we citizens are denied the ability to directly witness the process. You’ve given us an very helpful window. 🙂
@Grant_M@GottaLaff
NFL: She very well might commit perjury for her. She's definitely still drinking the GOP Kool-Aid, but she's probably going to just toe the line as closely as she can to try not burn as many bridges as she possibly can.
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