What VPN are you using?

I use Proton. But I continue to run into more and more websites and services that detect my VPN and refuse my connection, or just run literally 40 captchas in a row until I just give up.

I use Proton because it has a “suite” of products under a single subscription, but that benefit is losing it’s allure as some of their products are pretty shitty from a user experience perspective, their customer support is atrocious, and they don’t seem to pay any attention to what their users actually want.

Does anyone track known VPN servers? Is there a specific provider that causes less problems? Does anyone test different VPNs for detection?

Thinking about cancelling my subscription and moving to Mullvad.

Pantherina,

VPNs are not meant for privacy. The concept is clunky, as is the concept of our internet.

Tor or I2P are made for privacy, but the interactions with the clearnet have the same problems, you need a legal entity hosting the server, IPs are known and can be blocked etc.

Hosting your own VPN does not anonymize you anymore but is very unlikely to get blocked.

UckyBon,

I use both AirVPN and Mullvad, and certain websites block them too, but it depends on which country and which server you’re connected too.

Freuks,
@Freuks@lemmy.ml avatar

Using Ivpn mainly, Mullvad and Windscribe secondly. Good ones

LostAndSmelly,

I’m using SurfShark. I have not seen it once in the discussion so far. Is there something I don’t know that I should?

helenslunch,

Haven’t looked into them specifically but Proton and Mullvad have been around and have a good reputation with the privacy community.

Salix,

If you don’t need port forwarding, Mullvad is my pick. Since they got rid of port forwarding, I’ve moved to AirVPN and am happy with them. I just dislike AirVPNs’ GUI app, Eddie. I mainly use Wireguard directly for their servers.

RecursiveParadox,
@RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world avatar

Not OP but can I just comment that there are some high-quality answers here, good discussion. Thanks!

iliketurtles,

Windscribe…had it for a few years now and seems fine. I’ll probably look into proton or mulvad when my subscription runs out, but I’d re-up if I find another subscription deal.

Microplasticbrain,

Best thing i ever bought was my lifetime subscription for $40

gusgalarnyk,

I’ve been using Nord VPN for years. Maybe someone can educate me on why it’s not good but I’ve had zero issues with it and it allows me to do everything I need to for a great price.

BackOnMyBS,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world avatar

If I remember correctly, NordVPN keeps logs So, if a govt ever subpoenas their data, users can have their privacy violated.

xenspidey, (edited )

Nord says they don’t keep logs. Who knows if they actually do or not.

irreticent,

“NordVPN is clarifying that it will comply with information requests from international law enforcement after publishing a blog post in 2017 saying that it wouldn’t.”

So, it seems they’ll turn on logging if asked nicely enough.

MrDrillerArcade,

I’d be interested to hear some evidence of why it’s bad too

xenspidey,

I’m the same, it has wonderful Linux support

LemmyKnowsBest,

um I don’t use a vpn. Please tell me why I should use a VPN. It’s just something that costs money that seems unnecessary. I have nothing to hide. Why are you all hiding behind VPNs? What am I missing?

pipariturbiini,

It protects your data from snooping or man-in-the-middle attacks on untrusted networks. Or your internet service provider.

hperrin,

Not really. Unless you’re visiting unencrypted websites. If you’re using HTTPS and DNS over HTTPS, your ISP can only see what IP address you’re connecting to, not the traffic.

duckythescientist,

Because mainstream porn sites are blocked or require age verification in my state. Other good reasons are to avoid some issues when torrenting things or to “be” in another country to get around Netflix and other streaming service region blocks.

Privacy and avoiding man in the middle is kinda bullshit. Nearly all websites use TLS, so mitm isn’t possible. And it’s only privacy from your ISP.

helenslunch, (edited )

To prevent your activity being tracked across the web.

If “you have nothing to hide” then you’re in the wrong place.

LemmyKnowsBest,

I’m in the wrong place? You mean this place privacy@lemmy.ml ? Now I’m curious what y’all here are hiding.

helenslunch,

Now I’m curious what y’all here are hiding.

Everything we possibly can, because it’s nobody’s God damn business.

TheOSINTguy,

You have nothing to hide huh… So you take a shit with the stall door open?

lemmyreader,

um I don’t use a vpn. Please tell me why I should use a VPN.

It is up to you to use a VPN or not. Some people use a VPN to watch regular TV series which are blocked in their own country. Some people, like myself, despise the ad- and tracking- exploitation industry, other people may want to download e-books from anna’s archive or simply do not trust their ISP. Other people live in countries where their government is very oppressive and intends to arrest and torture any critical voices.

I have nothing to hide.

Reminds me of : “Arguing that you don’t care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say.”

Recommended viewing : piped.video/results?search_query=Shoshana+Zuboff

hperrin, (edited )

A VPN doesn’t protect you the way OP thinks it does. It just hides your IP address from the websites you visit. Of course, now instead of one website seeing that you visited it, one organization can see everything you visit.

Basically it just moves your trust from your ISP to your VPN provider. So yeah, if you don’t need that, and you don’t need to get around geo blocks, you don’t need a VPN.

NotSpez,

I believe there is clear evidence/jurisprudence showing that (at least some of the trustworthy) VPN providers donnot keep ANY data.

firefly, (edited )
@firefly@neon.nightbulb.net avatar

@helenslunch

"I have nothing to hide ..."

Nice story, bro.

When you post a real photograph of yourself, wife, kids, and all your social security numbers and bank account numbers, along with a complete history of all video rentals and library books, and your private confessions of folly, vice, and sin-- post all that on your Lemmy profile, then I'll believe you have nothing to hide.

LemmyKnowsBest, (edited )

My wife? Gross! I’m heterosexual woman. and everything else you described, except for social security numbers, sounds a lot like Facebook. Which I don’t use.

BackOnMyBS,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world avatar
  1. It obscures your IP so that sites don’t know who you are by that, but really, they can just fingerprint your browser if you’re not addressing that too.
  2. You can present your location to a site as being from any where the VPN has a server. Say you want to watch something that is only available to users in Canada, but you live in Mexico. You can use the VPN to present yourself to the site as being in Canada and watch it. Unfortunately, some sites are blocking content from being accessed by known VPN IP addresses. I think Netflix is one. Frustrating to me, lemmy.world doesn’t let anyone post or comment while using a VPN, though I understand that it’s for valid security and admin purposes, such as to reduce CASM material.
  3. More importantly, it encrypts your data between you and the VPN. That means that no one between you two knows what the info you’re transmitting means. This includes your ISP that likely collects/sells your data or could report it to authorities. Additionally, it protects you from people that can join your wifi and steal your data that way, say at a public wifi like a coffee shop.

Personally, I use a VPN as much as possible, especially when I’m connected to any wifi outside of my home. In fact, I will absolutely not access security-sensitive sites (e.g. bank accounts, credit cards, etc.) on public wifi without using my VPN.

hperrin,

There’s always the option of renting a low cost VM in the cloud and running your own VPN. They will probably monitor your traffic though.

helenslunch,

Kinda pointless

hperrin,

Depends what you’re using a VPN for. If you’re using it for privacy, yeah, it wouldn’t help. If you’re using it for geo locked content, it works great. Or for privacy from specifically your ISP.

helenslunch,

If you’re using it for privacy, yeah, it wouldn’t help

…he posted in c/privacy

hperrin, (edited )

If you’re trusting any other VPN provider, then you’re already willing to trust someone. What’s the difference between trusting Proton and trusting Digital Ocean?

If you’re only visiting HTTPS sites then your ISP already can’t snoop your traffic. A VPN gives you very little added privacy.

No matter what you use, you’re really only protecting yourself from your own ISP.

helenslunch,

deleted_by_author

    •
    hperrin,

    You think that using a VPN is protecting you from the website you’re connecting to logging that traffic?

    No. The website sees the traffic. The only thing they don’t see is your home IP address. That’s not even a useful piece of information for tracking someone. Home IP addresses are usually dynamic.

    Websites track you through cookies and etags, and VPNs do not block those. If they did, you wouldn’t be able to log into any websites, and you would always be redownloading JS, CSS, and fonts you’ve already downloaded.

    (Copied for convenience, since your comment is duplicated.)

    helenslunch,

    If you’re trusting any other VPN provider, then you’re already willing to trust someone

    It’s not an issue of trust but of obfuscation. You’re sharing IPs with other users

    A VPN gives you very little added privacy.

    Wrong.

    No matter what you use, you’re really only protecting yourself from your own ISP.

    Wrong again. You’re protecting yourself from having your traffic logged by the sites you visit. Every modern website is collecting this information and selling it to data brokers.

    hperrin, (edited )

    You think that using a VPN is protecting you from the website you’re connecting to logging that traffic?

    No. The website sees the traffic. The only thing they don’t see is your home IP address. That’s not even a useful piece of information for tracking someone. Home IP addresses are usually dynamic.

    Websites track you through cookies and etags, and VPNs do not block those. If they did, you wouldn’t be able to log into any websites, and you would always be redownloading JS, CSS, and fonts you’ve already downloaded.

    helenslunch, (edited )

    You think that using a VPN is protecting you from the website you’re connecting to logging that traffic?

    It is logging the traffic. It just prevents it from collecting my personal information in that log and sharing it with all of their data mining buddies.

    The only thing they don’t see is your home IP address. That’s not even a useful piece of information for tracking someone.

    I don’t even know how to respond to that, other than of course it is…

    Websites track you through cookies and etags, and VPNs do not block those.

    You assume that I’m not also blocking those things.

    If they did, you wouldn’t be able to log into any websites

    Do you not understand the difference between first and third-party cookies?

    hperrin, (edited )

    What personal information do you think the VPN is blocking? Like, exactly. Precisely what information do you believe the VPN prevents a website from seeing about you?

    I understand the difference between first and third party cookies. You said you were trying to prevent the website from tracking you. A website’s cookie for its own domain is first party. If you block that cookie, it’s harder for them to track you, and also you can’t log in.

    Your IP address is not very useful for tracking you.

    • Residential IP addresses change often.
    • They’re usually shared by a family or organization through NAT.
    • You will often have different IP addresses throughout the day as you switch between WiFi and cell data.
    • Your different devices may or may not share an IP address.

    The major ad trackers use cookies and etags to track you. They don’t use your IP address.

    helenslunch,

    Do you not understand how a VPN works? It prevents them from collecting your IP address.

    hperrin,

    Then we agree that’s the only advantage. So your original reply is wrong. A cloud VM running self hosted VPN protects you exactly as much as a commercial VPN with regard to the website you’re connecting to.

    helenslunch,

    A cloud VM running self hosted VPN protects you exactly as much as a commercial VPN with regard to the website you’re connecting to.

    No. You’re wrong once again. If you fire up a VPS and you’re assigned an IP, that’s still your IP, even if it’s running on a remote server. It belongs to you and only you. It is a personal identifier.

    hperrin,

    So just make a snapshot, and every time you want a new IP, create a new VM from the snapshot. Or if there’s an option in your cloud provider, just request a new IP.

    Whenever you connect to a VPN, you use the same IP address the whole session. You have to reconnect to a different node whenever you want a new IP.

    But I feel like you’re just being contrarian here. Your objections aren’t rooted in any sort of actual concern over privacy, and I don’t think you really understand the systems you’re using. In other words, you’re just being paranoid.

    If you want true privacy, use Tor.

    helenslunch,

    Whenever you connect to a VPN, you use the same IP address the whole session. You have to reconnect to a different node whenever you want a new IP.

    When you connect to a Proton or Mullvad server, you’re sharing that IP with thousands of other people. We’ve already been over this. It’s privacy through obscurity.

    Your objections aren’t rooted in any sort of actual concern over privacy

    Okay so it sounds like you don’t understand how VPNs work and aren’t willing to learn, and because of that you aren’t capable of engaging in good faith, so I’ll let you be on your way.

    hperrin, (edited )

    I’ve been a web and network engineer for 15 years, and I run a VPN on my own production cluster, but sure man, I don’t understand VPNs.

    Again, you do not understand how trackers work. Trackers don’t use your IP address. And unless Google changed it since I worked there, I can guarantee that.

    Prove to me that you block etags, cookies, localStorage, and service workers. Prove to me that every request you make spoofs a new user agent string. Prove to me that when you run JS, it obfuscates your screen dimensions and hardware availability. Prove to me that it obfuscates your font list and the available vendor prefixes. Prove to me that your browser adds artificial jitter to your real time clock, cause you can be tracked through that. Hell, you can be tracked through your latency, so prove to me you add random latency to your fetch calls. Prove to me you block media queries, because you can be tracked through CSS.

    You are paranoid, and you don’t even understand what to be paranoid about.

    hperrin,

    Also, please prove to me that you are blocking etags, because that is bonkers.

    firefly,
    @firefly@neon.nightbulb.net avatar

    @hperrin

    VPN + Tor = incognitopottamus

    therealjcdenton,

    Nice try fed, won’t narrow me down that easily

    helenslunch,

    Too late for this joke

    TheAnonymouseJoker,
    @TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

    I know your local IP address. 127.0.0.1 and now you will be caught.

    therealjcdenton,

    Delete this comment you’re doxxing me bud

    TheAnonymouseJoker,
    @TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

    Unfortunately, the internet does not forget and forgive. It was your fault.

    iiGxC,

    Mullvad, it has ipv6 and way better linux support than proton

    Molecular0079,

    No port forwarding though :(

    I used to use Mullvad but after they disabled port forwarding I switched over to Proton.

    Andromxda,
    @Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    AirVPN has port forwarding

    pathief, (edited )
    @pathief@lemmy.world avatar

    I used to be a Mullvad customer but switched to Proton because I use all the products on their suite. It makes financial sense to me.

    Mullvad, however, has the best VPN experience ever. Faster, more stable and way less Captchas (though I’m not sure that’s good?). Plus, I love their bullshit free pricing. It’s 5 euros a month regardless if you buy 1 month or 2 years. Can’t recommend it enough, even though I’m no longer a customer.

    iiGxC,

    Yep, I switched because I was moving away from the proton ecosystem lol. Their poor google-free android support for mail, and awful linux vpn support (they have a hard dependency on networkmanager, but I don’t use NM, I use iwd) plus no ipv6 pushed me away

    pathief,
    @pathief@lemmy.world avatar

    Yep, I know exactly what you mean. Lack of ipv6 is mind blowing, to be honest.

    totikom,

    Geph were not mentioned yet. It will likely not solve the problem mentioned by OP, but it is VERY censorship resistant.

    notnotmike,
    @notnotmike@programming.dev avatar

    Apparently unpopular but I use Mozilla VPN

    helenslunch,

    HOW DARE YOU

    Grass,

    Wasn’t it just rebadged mullvad?

    Tenkard,

    Yes. I used it too for a year but the clients were bad

    Andromxda,
    @Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    You’re fine, it’s basically just rebranded Mullvad VPN

    But at that point, you can just cut out the middle man and use Mullvad directly, I think their clients are much better and offer more features. They also don’t require your email address and you can pay anonymously with crypto.

    notnotmike,
    @notnotmike@programming.dev avatar

    Actually, the middle man is why I picked them… I’m just trying to give Mozilla extra revenue streams besides donations from Google.

    But it is good to know its at least not a bad option. Their client is decent enough, I have no problems with it, so I’m happy to continue to support them and think of it as a monthly donation

    Andromxda,
    @Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Ok that makes sense, but wtf I just realized that it’s $10/month, Mullvad is 5€ which is $5.38 and they even give you a 10% discount if you pay with crypto

    ahal,

    It’s $5/month with an annual subscription, but then you can’t go month to month like Mullvad.

    anton2492,

    Please don’t downvote this [too much] but…

    I’m not seeing ExpressVPN get mentioned here or elsewhere anymore except for the odd YouTube ad (perhaps this is already a tell-tale sign).

    Their website states that they run it off RAM and they don’t keep logs.

    Is there something wrong with it / did something happen to it that I’m not aware of? (I’ve been a customer of theirs for some time now)

    My aim with using VPN is to maintain data privacy across my Windows, iOS and Android devices, and be able to access geofenced media (e.g. a different country’s Netflix library), with minimal to no access issues during browsing or streaming. What’s the go-to these days?

    Upstream7564,

    embed.kumu.io/9ced55e897e74fd807be51990b26b415#vp…

    greywolf0x1,

    why are ppl scared of downvotes or being downvoted?

    Ilandar,

    I think they cause a lot of people psychological distress, either because they can’t handle disagreements or because they interpret them as a personal attack. If this sounds like you (the person reading this comment), please do yourself a favour and disable scores in Lemmy’s settings. You don’t have to live with reddit’s moronic upvote/downvote culture here.

    Andromxda,
    @Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    It’s owned by Kape Technologies, the same companies that owns other garbage VPN providers like CyberGhost and PIA

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