They both have extensive feature sets. But unfortunately my messenger of choice, @signalapp , is still not fully OpenSource (server), doesn't provide similar features, and the most annoying thing: have a stale bot on their Github to push issues under the rug:
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They have spent countless hours and some chunk of money to add features that the common user doesn't even use (e.g stories which since it's launch, even Signal themselves does not use it to update users of development 🤦)
Yes I have recurring donation to them. Yes, I'm trying to keep calm, but damn it, this is ridiculous that Signal is still this much behind the market. Stability, quality, features, design, using phone number,... . Come on!
@bioinformatician_next_door
Via bridge, yes, but first one should expose their accounts to bridges (already adding one security risk), and then have to have the bridges running on a server (time, maintenance), and on top of that matrix itself is not designed to be something like Signal or Whatsapp (voice messages, disappearing messages, gifs).
Not to mention that Matrix is not fully E2EE unlike the common misconception (e.g the reactions are fully plain text).
Regarding the sec risk, I get it but in case you need full encryption is better to use pgp and email? Plus, in case you run your own server then you could onboard everybody you care to it. Getting people out of closed source apps is always a win.
@bioinformatician_next_door
No one, and I mean it, no one from non techy world will stay in Matrix. I have tried, others have tried, we all failed and they all left for WhatsApp and Telegram. Matrix is really bad and not user-friendly. The first thing a user hits is verification step which for them is a vig complicated thing. Then the crappy UI or Element on mobile and being laggy as hell (both on Android and iOS) compared to WhatsApp and Telegram. Other clients are not good either.
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🧵👆 @bioinformatician_next_door
Matrix is designed to replace work environment communications. Something to replace Slack, not WhatsApp.
About encryption, we have many other ways other than pgp with much lower barrier to entry (e.g @delta or @Jami ) but none of them are still as attractive to general public. Jami practically is a ticking time bomb as all my conversations were wiped one day (happened twice)
I still think our best bet is Signal if they don't mess around with logo on shopping bags
Hello @Mehrad@bioinformatician_next_door@delta :blobwave:
I'm sorry to hear this! Jami still encounters a lot of issues, especially when it comes to device synchronization and reliability. Our whole team is now fully working on these issues, and we should have greater improvements throughout this year, with no bugs like these anymore!
@Jami
Let's hope for that, because wiping out the whole chat contents out of the blue with no way to get them back is very destructive to the trustworthiness image of a messaging app. In my case, the damage is done and it's not likely that I will ever use this GTK-based app ever again, but I hope Jami prosper when these bugs are properly squished. (Jami was one of the few GTK apps that I allowed myself to have on my computer. Now, happily I have one less.)
@Mehrad
I am not sure why it is a crappy UI.
I am mainly using the web on desktop and the android app works for me. @delta is something new (based on email if I'm correct) and I haven't tried it yet but seems promising.
Regarding the UX probably they just need a bit of time to get at the #telegram level.
>> I am not sure why it is a crappy UI. I am mainly using the web on desktop and the android app works for me.
I myself use Matrix in daily basis. For me as OpenSource and alternative to Slack it works very good (although laggy on Android), but for average person out there that everything they know is an "app" on their phone, Element looks like Windows 95. It also doesn't have most of the features these users use in daily basis (examples in my previous comment).
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🧵👆 @bioinformatician_next_door
And I know many many other people that tried to bring their family and friends to Matrix, and they all gave up after few months.
For me the biggest issue in Matrix (which probably can never get fixed) is lack disappearing messages. I want my chat history to get wiped from my device, friends device, and server after a set amount of time. It can never get fixed in Matrix, XMPP, and any other federated messaging platform unless it is fixed by cryptography.
@bioinformatician_next_door
Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about Matrix. Matrix does the job that it is designed for (which is not messaging app with friends and family similar to WhatsApp and Telegram).
My frustrations is with Signal that every day more and more of my contacts are migrating away because more and more of their contacts are migrating away due to lack of attractive features. For few of my friends, I'm the only one in their Signal. Soon they will be gone too.
@Mehrad
I am not sure what your friends expect from a messaging app.
I for example expect 2 things:
Instant messages and possible calls.
Element has both.
Then regarding security I expect E2E encryption, which it has it.
Regarding disappearing messages, I understand that some threat models need that but if you need such thing then using a smartphone is a no go.
@bioinformatician_next_door
As I explained before, Matrix is not as fully E2EE as they advertise. Reactions for one are NOT end to end encrypted. At least it was not up until some months back.
If you have managed to bring your communication circles under the Matrix umbrella, bravo 👏 because me and many many other folks miserably failed. There is not enough incentive for a normal WhatsApp user to migrate to Matrix. Absolutely zero. Zilch. They all left Matrix with a bitter memory and experience.
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