How can you call yourself a civilized country when you can’t even keep guns outside of schools, and your solution to gun violence in schools is either to have armed guards at the entrance or give teachers guns as well?
Is it a civilized Western country or is it the fucking far west?
How come most of the other countries around the world have figured out long ago how to send kids to school without fears of them being shot, and the richest country in the world can’t figure out how to solve such a simple problem yet?
@fabio Because the inalienable right to self-defense doesn't end anywhere. The "rest of the world" is far along it's slide into totalitarianism with most populations being fully or mostly disarmed at this point with rare exception. Their opinion doesn't count for shit.
@chillanarchist01 the insularism of Americans with no exposure to the outside world never ceases to amuse me.
You guys are the ones who are likely to elect again a malignant narcissist who buddies up with people who wave Confederate flags and Swastikas, and you think that it’s others who are slipping into totalitarianism.
You guys are the ones who have by far the highest number of shootings in the Western world, and yet you still fail to acknowledge that guns are the problem rather than the solution.
A parent who would send their kid to learn about society and civilization to a place with armed guards, armed teachers and armed pupils rather than give up their distorted idea of “self-defense” (as if it’s your supermarket guns who would defend you from modern warfare) is the best definition of evolutionary failure.
@Bernard@fabio I doubt we'll see fewer deranged people anywhere. However, at least those teachers can defend themselves more actively.
If you want to see fewer deranged people, maybe we should stop stigmatizing mental health care and actually treat mental health disorders instead of playing along.
@chillanarchist01@Bernard or maybe just make sure that deranged people can’t easily get hold of a gun at the nearest mall?
How come such talks only exist in the US? How come nobody in the civilized world would think of arming the teachers? How come a shooting in Europe is such a serious event that people talk about it for months and years, and in the US shootings have become a weekly routine? Is it so hard to understand that the ease of getting your hands of a gun is the only problem?
@fabio@Bernard Therein lies the problem. Who determines who is too deranged to have a gun? I certainly do not trust a single entity in the world to accurately determine that for anyone.
@chillanarchist01@Bernard well there are people with degrees in psychology whose job is exactly to assess whether someone is mentally fit to hold a tool for murder. I’d trust their experience. Most if not all the other Western countries have tight background checks when it comes to gun licenses, and nobody seems to complain.
Is the right for a nutcase to buy a gun worth more than the right of a kid to grow up in a safe school environment without exposure to violence or tools of violence?
@fabio@Bernard The right to self-defense is of the highest importance (along with free expression and the ownership of property), and don't think for an instance that men with degrees won't be weaponized by the State. Governments have a long history of calling people "witches" or "mentally ill" or other euphemism for being "unfit" for a particular purpose to justify their crimes. The only nutcases are the ones who believe removing one tool will prevent evil people from doing evil.
@chillanarchist01@Bernard you see, there’s no right of self-defense in Europe that needs to be enforced by individuals owning their own guns because institutions here actually work.
Because I can call the police if something goes wrong and they would usually do a good job protecting people.
Are institutions so rotten in the US that you can’t trust the police nor the government and you have to resort to people owning their own tools of murder? Then the problem is probably with your country and the mindset of its citizens.
@fabio@Bernard You live as a slave and clamber to have others do the same. Pathetic. Only you are responsible for yourself and safety, no one else. To put it off on someone else is lazy, and to wait for someone else is dangerous.
@fabio@Bernard For the record, the right of self-defense (and free expression and property ownership) are inherent to every human on the planet. It's just that some people seem to have grown lazy and comfortable being farmed for taxes by people with fancy titles.
Defense from crime and abuse is a task undertaken by governments in basically all civilized countries.
You have laws that set clear boundaries on what’s allowed, courts whose job is to enforce those laws, and a police force that is trained to use weapons if needed in order to protect other citizens from law abusers.
Civilized societies are shaped around such separations of concerns and accountability - something that you don’t have if every citizen feels that they have the right to pull the trigger whenever they like.
This is how things have been working at least since the times of the Greek polis and the Roman empire.
If you mistrust institutions, elected governments and police forces to the point that you feel that you have the right to take care of yourself however you please, then either you have a problem with rotten institutions, or a mindset problem. Either way, your idea of advanced civilization was already outdated 2500 years ago.
And you can’t see that if you’re the only country following these principles, and you’re the only country with a major gun violence problem, then probably the problem is with your country, not with everyone else.
huh duh @fabio, how do you think it became the richest country in the world
Jokes aside, school shootings get a lot attention because the tragic nature of child fatality and their uniqueness to the US. Not saying they can be ignored, but their impact is negligible to that of motor-vehicle accidents or diet/addiction-linked illnesses, indirectly caused by the country’s other shareholders. Even the total number of homicides (not counting freedom-spreading outside of its border) fail short to these categories.
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