ChrisMayLA6,
@ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us avatar

thinks (by which he seems to mean digital technologies) will make the more efficient & means we can stop pouring money into a 'leaky bucket'.

Quite apart the vacuity of such techno-boosterism, you would have thought in the wake of the disaster, anyone thinking deploying technology is the answer, might want to be more careful.

Many people are watching Mr Streeting & are getting worried about how he thinks about NHS reform!

I'm one of them!

djr,
@djr@union.place avatar

@ChrisMayLA6

Some of us can remember the disaster of the IT system that formed part of the "NHS Plan" announced with a fanfare in 2000.

simon_brooke,
@simon_brooke@mastodon.scot avatar

@djr @ChrisMayLA6 it's not inevitable that very large IT systems should be disasters. The World Wide Web, for example, works pretty well, in the main. However, the common factor in UK public sector IT failures may will be – or rather, that division of Fujitsu which used to be ICL.

etchedpixels,
@etchedpixels@mastodon.social avatar

@simon_brooke @djr @ChrisMayLA6 The web is not a large IT system though. It's a lot of very small IT systems bound together by a collection of mutually managed interoperability protocols. Same with email, same with bank interoperation, Mastadon, DNS, same with many many other things. This is not chance. Systems practice, economic models of competition, information theory and technology and design best practices all clearly explain chunks of why this is so.

simon_brooke,
@simon_brooke@mastodon.scot avatar

@etchedpixels @djr @ChrisMayLA6 the interoperation is the system. The open protocols are a necessary (but not sufficient) guarantee of its function at scale.

peterbrown,
@peterbrown@mastodon.scot avatar

@simon_brooke @etchedpixels @djr @ChrisMayLA6 it is my understanding that the Scottish NHS has had an integrated national system for some time, but I have no idea how well it works.

djr,
@djr@union.place avatar

@etchedpixels @simon_brooke @ChrisMayLA6

A very fair and helpful point. The proposed system was centralised to a remarkable extent. Sadly only too typical of

simon_brooke,
@simon_brooke@mastodon.scot avatar

@djr @etchedpixels @ChrisMayLA6 well, exactly. Highly centralised systems are brittle, and adapt poorly to change.

CaptainJanegay,
@CaptainJanegay@mastodon.coffee avatar

@simon_brooke @djr @ChrisMayLA6 Capita has also played a significant role, especially in the NHS

Wen,
@Wen@mastodon.scot avatar

@CaptainJanegay @simon_brooke @djr @ChrisMayLA6 Crapita take every opportunity to fill their boots and under deliver. Not surprisingly ex politicians occupy spots in the senior ‘management’.

CaptainJanegay,
@CaptainJanegay@mastodon.coffee avatar

@Wen @simon_brooke @djr @ChrisMayLA6 From what I've heard they're also a terrible employer, no effective health & safety management, crap leave policies & retaliatory firings

intrbiz,

@ChrisMayLA6 I feel it's important to point out that it is not technology which failed, but it was people.

Technology is built by people and thus is no more reliable than the people and processes which built it.

Most government IT projects fail not due to the technology, but all the people and politics involved.

The NHS could benefit from good technology and good social change. Except we have no way to make that happen.

ChrisMayLA6,
@ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us avatar

@intrbiz

Yes, that's a fair comment & mirrors my general view of technology (which I draw from Lewis Mumford, among others)

intrbiz,

@ChrisMayLA6 I've worked in both Local Government and whole range of private sector projects.

Successful technology is driven by small teams who care about what they are building. Often they care enough to understand the needs of there users and stakeholder and deliver a working solution.

Sadly projects in government and big companies are driven by different levers, often focused on inaccurate cost metrics, and thus consistently fail.

Good technology requires empathy and passion, that costs.

etchedpixels,
@etchedpixels@mastodon.social avatar

@ChrisMayLA6 It's a historic labour (English bit anyway) disease - they blew billions on a total disaster of an NHS IT program under Blair despite the tech and medical world telling them it was a ridiculous project as planned and implemented (or mostly not implemented).

Somehow that lot ended up with the replacement government paying lots of money to Fujitsu
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28464002

pasquires,
@pasquires@mastodon.world avatar
KimSJ,
@KimSJ@mastodon.social avatar

@pasquires @etchedpixels @ChrisMayLA6 I remember going to a presentation by the civil servant in charge of that NHS IT project. I was appalled. It was as if none of the advances in software project management of the previous two decades had happened. Waterfall design of a giant, monolithic system,, with minimal input from actual users. It was immediately obvious that the project would fail.

tokensane,
@tokensane@mastodon.me.uk avatar

@KimSJ @pasquires @etchedpixels @ChrisMayLA6 Because that's how the Civil Service rolls. Tell me again about the benefits of insourcing government software...

KimSJ,
@KimSJ@mastodon.social avatar

@tokensane @pasquires @etchedpixels @ChrisMayLA6 It doesn’t have to be that way… back in the 2010s, we were leading the way with Government IT. Infighting between Civil Service fiefdoms has seen off the danger of doing things well, though.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/sep/24/government-digital-service-truly-was-once-world-beating-what-happened

fkamiah17,
@fkamiah17@toot.wales avatar

@ChrisMayLA6 I don't know if you saw the information about a hustings in his constituency last week - a British-Palestinian lady was voted as a third party candidate unanimously by all who attended (around 200, I think). His constituency has a large British Muslim population, and his majority is only about 7,000.
I would sooo love it if he lost to her!

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