Susan60,
@Susan60@aus.social avatar

I was going to post this as a response to someone else’s post, but realised it wasn’t really relevant to their point.

Years ago, when doing my teacher training, we had a guest speaker come & talk to us about our role as teacher when dealing with sexual diversity etc. He was a very conventional looking young white man.

It was a seminar type presentation, with discussion along the way. As time went on, he slowly removed his “straight” mask, to show how many students can & do present as heteronormative until if & when they’re ready to come out.

I wonder how this would work for autistic advocates who can mask effectively, in small group presentations? Masking as in making eye contact, smiling, a self effacing introduction etc. And then, “This is how I can present when I feel the need. This is how I present when I feel safe or give up caring.” Followed by an explanation of the impact that masking has, the fact that many autistic people can’t mask, the fact that we shouldn’t need to mask etc as well as general autism education.

Of course this shouldn’t be necessary & it wouldn’t be in an ideal world.
We could make comparisons with women who have to play by the men’s rules in business & politics, the people of colour &/or members of other different ethnic/religious groups who try to “assimilate” to get ahead, & how many struggle to do so, feel like traitors to themselves & their peers, get sick of &/or struggle with pretending to be someone other than they really are. Masking autism is not the same, & this would need to be explained, but I think many people would relate to some of the similarities & the feelings involved.

There will always be some people who refuse to learn, who insist on a negative approach as part of their strategy to prop up their own ego. And it’s not them whom I would bother trying to convince. It’s the more reasonable but ignorant people who are open to learning that I think would be worth targeting.

@actuallyautistic

sfwrtr,
@sfwrtr@eldritch.cafe avatar

@Susan60 @actuallyautistic

'“This is how I can present when I feel the need. This is how I present when I feel safe or give up caring.” Followed by an explanation of the impact that masking has, the fact that many autistic people can’t mask, the fact that we shouldn’t need to mask etc as well as general autism education. Of course this shouldn’t be necessary & it wouldn’t be in an ideal world. '

With that paragraph my eyes opened.

/I just realized my mother knew all along./ She taught me to mask from when I was a young child in the 60s, to fit in with any set of adults, to seem an adult or a kid, to act this way or that with my little friends depending on the family or the context.

I was the little odd kid who rolled instead of crawling, who didn't learn to speak until placed into a special kindergarten, where I picked up French instead of English. To fit in, to mask. I got soooo good at the acting!

All I wanted was to fit in well enough that I got ignored, so I could be invisible, relieved of my burden. My shyness is really my exhaustion at having to try once again to fit in, to think on the fly with people I don't know, who might see the truth if I fail. Am I fraud, an act, not real? Shyness speaking there, getting in the way.

I have to think about that. I love the masks, my tools. I'm thinking up new strategies. To keep being sincere while being as I need to be.

And to think my mother knew all along I was . I'm flabbergasted. Were she still alive, I'd call her up right now...

Really good post Susan60. Thanks.

Susan60,
@Susan60@aus.social avatar

@sfwrtr @actuallyautistic

Oh gee…

That’s why I love this place. We can all express stuff & what we read can spark off epiphanies. I often find myself jutting down notes on my phone or in a notebook.

I’m so glad you found this helpful. Given the way autistic people were often treated back then, I’m glad that I went undiagnosed & learned how to mask. Obviously my traits were such that this wasn’t as awful an outcome as it has been for some. But when had to step up & take charge after my parents’ deaths, I was able to do so. Yes, I burnt out, & suffered depression, but I got through.

I think my own mother was probably AuADHD and while I sometimes found her hard or distant, I also have precious memories of tenderness & empathy when I was sick, surprisingly gauche humour (she could be a bit of a snob) & in depth analytical discussions in response to articles in the Saturday paper.

I’m always aware when I write that there are others for whom the journey has been harder and more painful, leaving deeper & more tender scars. But surely it’s a good thing to recognise & acknowledge the good experiences we’ve had?

Sci_Fi_FanGirl,
@Sci_Fi_FanGirl@hessen.social avatar

@Susan60 @actuallyautistic I love that idea! I think this is a great way to raise awareness.

Could see myself doing that. As a teacher, I'm used to talking in front of people. Not right now, as I'm still figuring out my masking. Maybe in the future.

But I'd really love to see that happening.

marytzu,
@marytzu@mastodon.social avatar

@Susan60 @actuallyautistic I would really love to see this.

I'm curious as to the details of how the "straight" mask dropped in that talk you were witness to.

You are correct, there are significant differences. Some gays and lesbians are straight-passing due to deliberate attempts to do so for the sake of safety and/or feeling the need to fit in. Others, like myself, are straight passing because that particular presentation feels natural to them.

marytzu,
@marytzu@mastodon.social avatar

@Susan60 @actuallyautistic for me, attraction to women is inherently feminine.

I've tried being more butch coz that was my perception at the time of what being gay was, it it felt like more of a mask.

The intersection with autistic masking can be messy at times, because a lot of autistic traits are read as masc which pisses me off lol.

Strangely, I'm never on the ugly end of gender policing of such shit (eg my womanhood had never been questioned over my inability to multitask LOL)

marytzu,
@marytzu@mastodon.social avatar

@Susan60 @actuallyautistic anyway. Bit of a tangent there.

I don't think I could give such a talk myself. Too stressful, and I think it would require authoritative power to pull off in the workplace successfully.

But I would love to see someone do it.

Maybe one day I'll be in a position to.

Susan60,
@Susan60@aus.social avatar

@marytzu @actuallyautistic

It’s all relevant. My sister is lesbian, not butch but definitely not girly & hasn’t worn a dress in years & probably autistic. My oldest is enby & ADHD.

As a teacher I’m used to standing in front of groups of people, & have done a little bit of public speaking in other capacities. Sometimes I’m masking, but sometimes I’ve spoken with passion about a special interest. If I’m speaking to a receptive audience, open to new ideas, I love it! But I also know that my passion needs to be toned down (do masking again I guess) so that people aren’t too afraid to ask questions, demonstrate ignorance, risk exposing prejudice etc. People rarely learn if they feel that they’re under attack, but they might entertain the possibility that they’ve been ignorant &/or mistaken if they feel safe enough to ask questions or even argue.

Have you watched Douglas by Hannah Gadsby on Netflix? The comedian? Definitely not my style but very entertaining. 😁

marytzu,
@marytzu@mastodon.social avatar

@Susan60 @actuallyautistic I have not watched it.

I don't watch a lot of shows haha. What I do watches usually with my partner. Watching suits atm, was watching twilight zone before that. Nothing queer culturey. I was into queer culture when i was a babydyke. I grew out of it guess.

marytzu,
@marytzu@mastodon.social avatar

@Susan60 idk, there's a lot of stereotypes and camp and I don't relate to it at all.

I think gender expression and sexuality (and autism for that matter) are independant variables with some covariance but it's a long way from being r=0.7.

It's probably due to both having a shared cause rather than the two being directly related (ie a causes both b and c, rather than b causing c or vice versa).

marytzu,
@marytzu@mastodon.social avatar

@Susan60 tangent again: I've heard autists shunning dresses due to sensory issues. I have more sensory issues with pants and jeans though. Loose fitting pants are okay but the i need a belt anyway to keep them up.

The right dress means less sensory issues tbh. No pressure or feeling of constraint on my thighs or hips.

marytzu,
@marytzu@mastodon.social avatar

@Susan60 thank you for the recommendation though.

And yeah you should totally keep advocating where you can. Don't let the lack of formal diagnosis stop you from subverting those walls! 😊

Susan60,
@Susan60@aus.social avatar

@marytzu

Do you know Gadsby? Her show Nanette was going to be her last ever but was such a hit, launching her to international stardom, that she changed her mind. That might still be on Netflix.

grrrr_shark,
@grrrr_shark@supervolcano.angryshark.eu avatar

@Susan60 @marytzu It's really good. And, well, pretty much anything she's done is really good.

rebekka_m,
@rebekka_m@fnordon.de avatar

@Susan60 @actuallyautistic this is something that I REALLY would like to try, e.g. with colleagues/my department; I was diagnosed recently [in 2023] and am 42ys and nobody that is not "near and dear" to me believes me when I am suggesting either one of AuDHD. Cause I am masking highly effective [to the outside], not only but after having studied "social competence" [2 terms] and hold a diploma in maths and a master's in business psychology ... Very interesting "play"/thoughts!!1

Susan60,
@Susan60@aus.social avatar

@rebekka_m @actuallyautistic

Fascinating but a little scary too?

I’m AuADHD, & I think there are times when some subtle traits help to obscure others. For example, my desire to know what is going to happen & how, often overcomes my distractibility, allowing me to be well prepared & organised. But my ADHD means that I can sometimes be spontaneous in amusing, low stakes ways.

Most meltdowns & overwhelms happen at home.

People see & hear what we say & do in front of them, without being aware of how we think & feel & what we do in private.

samid,
@samid@mastodon.de avatar

@Susan60 @actuallyautistic
this sounds like a really cool idea. It would make a great seminar.

Susan60,
@Susan60@aus.social avatar

@samid @actuallyautistic

My teacher trainer still works in the field. I might get in touch…

Susan60,
@Susan60@aus.social avatar

@samid @actuallyautistic

Just sent an email. 😳

davidalexlamb,

@Susan60 @actuallyautistic I have been masking so long, and have stopped so recently, that I think it'll be very difficult for me to act out the transition between the two. I do think it could be a good idea, but am a little skeptical about how a neurotypical audience would react.

Susan60,
@Susan60@aus.social avatar

@davidalexlamb @actuallyautistic
I’m still working this out. I’m not in a hurry to “declare” myself with people, but suspect that the unmasking will happen naturally with those I’m closest to, whether I like it or not. I can imagine taking on an advocacy role in future, which would blow up my mask well & truly, but would probably need a formal diagnosis to feel confident in that role. That’s an expensive process in Australia.

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