So, a question for undiagnosed late realised @actuallyautistic folks.
Your work makes a change and it saves them money but plays actual havoc with all of your traits that you're still learning to recognise as autistic. You tell them about the impact it has on you and they completely dismiss your complaint, saying its fine for most people.
If there was a diagnosis it'd basically be indirect discrimination. But there isn't, and no prospect of one any time soon.
What do you do?
This question is relevant to me, too, because I've recently discovered my own autism and I have no formal diagnosis. Fortunately, my employer is flexible enough to give me the accommodations I need.
Obviously, your rights and your employer's obligations will depend on local laws. Your profile strongly suggests that you're in the UK, so this is suggestive:
"1. Diagnosis Is Not Essential For Disability Protection.
UK disability law frames disability as chronic difficulties in normal day-to-day activities lasting 12 months or more. It does not provide a long, exhaustive list of what is covered or not covered. Therefore, if you have an employee who is experiencing chronic difficulties in normal working activities related to communication (e.g. literacy or following instructions) memory or learning, you might do better to assume disability and act protectively."
Therefore, if I found myself in your situation, my next move might be to read around the subject on the excellent Citizens Advice website:
Wow. I have no idea what the situation is here in Australia. I left my job as a school teacher in 2015, having no idea that I was autistic, but knowing that my mental health was struggling even more than usual due to some newer requirements of my job.
Stigma was a huge issue for me, & the idea of being open about “self diagnosis” is quite confronting. But! It’s so encouraging to see that things are moving in the right direction.
@Jobob
Bite my lips and carry on, gradually becoming more and more alienated, until a breaking point is reached, I hit burnout, I go on psych sick leave and they find an excuse to fire me.
@Jobob@actuallyautistic
Actions speak louder than words. Your employer has shown, quite eloquently, what it thinks about you. I would act accordingly.
If you're in the UK, it might be worth a call to #CitizensAdvice, just to see if a formal diagnosis is really necessary. Unfortunately, their page on the subject doesn't make it clear.
@nddev@actuallyautistic ahh, that's another good suggestion.
I wish we did have an HR department, but we don't, so whatever happens it's me vs management...
I don't think the lack of an HR department will be a major disadvantage in this case. People think of HR as someone who'll stand up to Management on their behalf, but that's not their role at all. HR is an arm of Management; for someone to stand up for your rights, you'd want a union (not that I've ever been a member of one, so I can't say more about it than that).
@nddev@actuallyautistic yes, but they do at least tend to take the view that a) turnover is bad, and b) we don't want to get sued. Which I could leverage, if that was an option, I think.
It is a very, um, unusual organisation.
I'm a sample of one, but I will just say this: I've regretted staying too long in a job out of misplaced loyalty, but I've never regretted leaving when a job became toxic or untenable. It would be harder for me to move now because of ageism in the programming business, but I'd still do it if I had to.
I'm sure you'll weigh everything up and do the right thing. You're the only person here who knows the situation and the people; you're best placed to decide.
If they wear glasses ask them if you can hold them for a minute (or take them off if remote). Then tell them that they should continue the rest of the week without them. when they say no, or ask for them back, suggest that they don't need this accommodation for their disability. "It's fine for most people"
@Jobob@actuallyautistic the problem with food alergies as an analog is that 1. they're invisible and hard to relate to if you don't have them. 2. there's no accomodation for them. The answer to "i can't eat that" is just not eating that.
I'm sure there are better metaphors than mine, but they have to be something where the normal "everyone expects it" solution is to "provide an accomodation" to enable it rather than just not do it.
@masukomi@Jobob@actuallyautistic also, there really is intentional discrimination around food allergies, so it wouldn't be particularly funny and would need to be navigated carefully
@irenes@masukomi@actuallyautistic I think there are very few spaces in the world where accommodations are needed but there's no intentional discrimination. Sadly.
Needing glasses to drive actually means a person has a vision disability. The thing that sets glasses apart from almost all other disabilities is that the normal response that EVERYONE expects is to get the person glasses.
As a result of society's default response being to provide accommodations for this disability no-one thinks of it as a disability, because almost everyone who has it, has adequate accommodations.
@masukomi@Jobob@actuallyautistic A blind colleague of my spouse's once said how he admired how his employer provided accommodations for so many of the employees -- namely lights, as they were incapable of finding their way around in the dark.
@masukomi@actuallyautistic I know 😊 I'm currently adjusting to my new varifocals and it's no fun. Which is maybe why pushing that particular analogy doesn't appeal to me - I'd be seriously lost without my glasses.
(1/3)I don't know whether your employer will get away with insisting on a diagnosis. It's not a good look, especially as the UK govt has said employers have a "duty to people with autism and is not dependent on them having been formally diagnosed." Denying you could lead to a claim for victimisation as well.
Employers should understand that an employee’s neurodiversity could qualify as a disability under the Equality Act 2010.
(2/3) Under the law, employees have the right to identify as having a disability, or not. But, the legal definition of ‘disability’ under the Equality Act 2010 means that neurodivergent workers are likely to meet the conditions. Government guidance states: ‘A disability can arise from a wide range of impairments which can be … developmental, such as autistic spectrum disorders (ASD), dyslexia and dyspraxia.’
@DziadekMick@actuallyautistic that's interesting. To be clear, needing a diagnosis was my assumption rather than any assertion by my employer. Still finding it hard to see myself as autistic or disabled... Maybe at least in part because if people are reasonable it's almost manageable.
There are many of us who find it hard to see ourselves as autistic or disabled. I'm afraid it goes with the territory, mostly, I think, because we're pressured by society to conform to their norms and behave accordingly. But they carry on in their 'normal' way without a care for our invisible disability. My gut instinct (based on zero direct experience of your situation) is that they will listen if you assert yourself. But that may not be the right advice for you.
@DziadekMick@actuallyautistic if they were being reasonable there wouldn't be a problem. It's a very small org with no HR, minimal line manager training and no internal legal team, and they're trying to save themselves money. I am not sure leadership have had any reason to be aware of the equality act up to now.
@Jobob@actuallyautistic In corporate America no one would care, you'd be forced to adapt or learn to navigate, and likely would eventually be fired or quit in a meltdown. And they would blame it on any other reason they could pin it on so you'd have no recourse.
(This was literally the cycle of my employment history/life until I was fortunate enough to not have to work anymore. And I live in terror something will happen to make me have to go through it all again.)
@stina_marie@actuallyautistic there are many reasons I don't think corporate America would suit me, fortunately we have a bit more protection here in Europe.
@Jobob@actuallyautistic I'm very glad for you. It's obviously a struggle and not easy wherever you may reside, but at least you have SOME protections. I hope you're able to find a solution that keeps you healthy and happy.
@Jobob@actuallyautistic Saying it's "fine for most people" is an admission of discrimination. Which would justify no wheelchair access.
Direct discrimination is always unlawful. I don't know whether your employer will get away with insisting on a diagnosis. It's not a good look, especially as the UK govt has told LAs they have a "duty to people with autism and is not dependent on them having been formally diagnosed." Denying you could lead to a claim for victimisation as well. /cont
I know that is not a viable option in most cases, but if it was, corps would change their attitude.
50 years ago smoking was accepted everywhere. I told my boss the open drafting room with 8 or so engineers/draftsmen was bothersome to me. No diagnosed allergy, & "2nd hand smoke" was just getting acknowledged as an issue.
Within a week they told me I would be sharing a walled office with a nonsmoking engineer.
@Jobob I'd look for a new place immediately. I've only self-dx a month ago but most of the times I've switched my employer was allready like this. As long as they treat me well, I am the most loyal person. But the day I feel treated unfair, I'm planning to leave.
@Jobob@actuallyautistic I should probably add that I work in IT. That industry definitely has its pro's and con's, but one giant pro that has always played into my hands is that there is always an employer in need for my skillset. That helps tremendously when I feel that I need to change employers.
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