Slyence, 14 days ago

@davidzipper The Big 3 didn't kill the sedan, the American consumer did.

Nobody is holding a gun to the American car buying public and forcing them to buy F150s.

Car companies make the cars people want to buy. Simple as. Detroit even tried making electric cars, but people didn't want to buy them.

There is no grand conspiracy. People just like the look and feel of driving an SUV.

cykonot, 14 days ago

@Slyence @davidzipper https://www.wired.com/story/the-us-wants-to-close-the-suv-loophole-that-supersized-cars/

We're all entitled to our own opinions, though some questions REALLY aren't opinion-based

Slyence, 14 days ago

@cykonot @davidzipper that's an unrelated point that doesn't address consumer demand

in 2022, Toyota sold 295,000 Camrys in America. In 2022 Toyota sold 366k Rav4s in America.

In 2022, Ford sold 638k F-series trucks.

Americans. Do. Not. Want. Sedans.

Taxing people into buying sedans is a good idea, but it's not what people want. People want trucks.

Neblib, 14 days ago

@Slyence @cykonot @davidzipper I think an important clarification is "Americans who buy new cars" as that's the only customer that car makers care about, despite the used market being twice as large. Another point is the data is hard to read with CAFE and tarrifs manipulating the margins of profitability. I predict these trends are going to accelerate with the hemespheric competition going on as well as inflation.

Neblib, 14 days ago

@Slyence @cykonot @davidzipper that being said, the used market reflects the new market, and 2023 top sold 1-5 year old models is mostly trucks and SUVs. Also I think Hatchback > sedan, so I'd be okay with better smaller hatchbacks too.

enobacon, 14 days ago

@davidzipper if only the decision makers at companies were accountable for their failures. By the time they exhaust the profit-taking schemes, they've got their yachts and golden parachute. Workers will be left holding the bag and government will bail out the companies to start the cycle again.