Thank You Everyone For Rejecting The Fascists/Bigots At The Door

After years of reddit/twitter/facebook propping up fascism/bigotry with algorithms & bots I'm honestly surprised and relieved to be in an online space that clearly rejects their ideology.

They can have reddit/facebook/twitter. AFAIC the only way to reach some of these people is to leave them alone long enough to realize on their own.

Lemmy.world admins are doing an amazing job dealing with everything. Their recent decision to defederate from exploding heads (or whatever its called) really goes to show that they're in it for the right reasons.

VoxAdActa, (edited )
VoxAdActa avatar

The biggest difference I've experienced between the fediverse and Reddit is how infrequently I come across outright bigotry in the comments. I didn't expect that, and I certainly didn't expect that to feel as refreshing as it did. I had gotten to the point where I was just numb to the racism, misogyny, homo/transphobia, etc. Not having to put up with it to nearly the same degree in my first few weeks over here was amazing.

Now that I've (a) seen that a community can exist with a minimum of people calling me slurs, and (b) realized how much those comments were actually affecting me (I'm not so tough after all), I am very aggressive about protecting this space while it's still possible to stem the tide.

I suspect a lot of other Reddit migrants feel something similar. We've been forced to put up with these chuds for years, to the point where we've just started treating them as an inevitable, natural forces, like shitty weather or beach seagulls. Over the last four years, particularly, we've very clearly seen the result of allowing these fuckfaces to take root and grow their communities. Now that we have a chance to make something different, a place where that doesn't happen, we're (pretty collectively) jumping at the chance to actually fight against them. Trying to fight them on Reddit was like trying to fight a snowstorm, or fire ants, or the just the fucking tide. Here? There's a chance.

Edit: Another great thing about this place is I can see everyone who downvotes comments like "I'm glad I don't have to just suck up and deal with being called a f*g twice a day", go through their activity, and see if I want to just block them preemptively.

ConTheLibrarian,

The unilateral rejection of right wing antics gives me hope for humanity. Not just that lemmy admins are willing to take a stand... but that the entire community here is downvoting them and not letting them thrive anywhere.

When I joined a week ago, the founder of c/conservative had already been run out of his own community and created c/conservativesonly... which he was subsequently run out of a second time and forced to make a new account to mod it.

In a weird way... lemmy might be the proof of concept we needed that democracy can beat fascism.

HelixDab,

Serious question: How do you get run out of a community you founded?

Cannacheques,

To be fair I prefer not to conflate any and all fascism or conservatism with either of the other.

At the end of the day, everybody deserves space and a voice, whether they call themselves left or right wingers, what's important is whether they want that space to become a hate filled echo chamber is on them.

ConTheLibrarian,

That's fair... But also to be fair we're not talking about conservatism. We're talking about fascism masquerading as conservatism and declaring themselves the authorities on morality; so that they can undermine democracy for theocracy -which is inherently fascist.

I grew up Christian. These people are not followers of Christ, they're not fucking "conservatives." They're loonies! The majority of Christians who actually believe in his morals stopped going to church and tuned out from Koolaid.fm a long time ago. I guarantee you the genuine conservatives you're trying to protect are more likely to not vote at all than vote conservative. Never mind go online to propagate hateful garbage Jesus would absolutely (!!) denounce vehemently!!!!

CodeMonkeyDance,

Well said

whofearsthenight,

Well, I have good news and I have bad news.

Bad news first - I think a lot of the reason this doesn't exist on federated services is largely because those services are in their infancy and principled people or at least people with slightly more than lukewarm IQs are more likely to seek them out.

Good news - the capitalist nature of corporate social media means that at scale you have to tolerate a certain number of nazis and bigots. See also: the recall scene from Fight Club. The fediverse largely doesn't have that problem. We don't have to say "we have to keep this account on the network because they're boosting the ad numbers" we can just fucking ban them.

In the short term for the fediverse, it's a little security by obscurity. In the longer term, it's really more of a moderation problem, but even there I'm optimistic. Over on reddit, there were/are a few subs where if you blocked every user subscribed, you'd lose no value even in other subs. instances are going to be similar, I bet.

1chemistdown,
1chemistdown avatar

This is my mental image every time someone online claims to be a black conservative.

duraks,

Did you know that most Africans are conservative? The USA is not the only country in the world.

ironic_elk,

I love all the, "I'm actually black and democrats are the real racists!"

I'm sure there are some black people that do believe that. But I mean like... KKK and nazi members and such aren't comfortable showing up to democrat rallies to show their support. Republicans seem to have no issues co-mingling with them.

But hey you have people like Kaitlyn Jenner who still support republicans despite the fact that so many of them think of her existence as woke and needs to be exterminated. So... Who knows.

ArugulaZ,
ArugulaZ avatar

I don't want to misgender Caitlyn Jenner. Should I call her Uncle or Aunt Tom?

FfaerieOxide,
FfaerieOxide avatar

Just say she's pulling a Victor Barker.

Turkey_Titty_city,

black conservatives are conservatives because of religion mostly.

same with hispanics.

HolyDuckTurtle,
HolyDuckTurtle avatar

I also wouldn't underestimate the effect of class divide. Say in an area that has decent social equality but disparate financial class issues where the wealthy will tend to lean conservative.

I haven't researched that much, but it wouldn't surprise me. Albeit, those who go full conservative supporting those who openly want them dead is a much bigger stretch.

Unaware7013,

But hey you have people like Kaitlyn Jenner who still support republicans despite the fact that so many of them think of her existence as woke and needs to be exterminated. So... Who knows.

It always amazes me how many people will gladly be the token minority to Judas goat their brethren for the right. No matter how many times the person gets tossed aside, there's always another one waiting to get the money/power/attention until they're the ones getting tossed aside.

Boiglenoight,

That’s something I noticed when I joined Mastodon as well. When people are in control for the sake of community and not profit, things tend to be better in this regard. Let crazies federate with crazies.

ConTheLibrarian,

NGL I derive some joy seeing maga/conservative/fascist communities getting all their misinformation downvoted to hell while the only positively voted posts are about the crimes & failures of trump and republicans in general.

I don't want them banned. This is much better.

patachu,

LOL, the OOP's username in that linked thread is certainly a username.

Really appreciate all the human eyes keeping a lookout for this nonsense instead of letting the ragebait spiral in on itself with the algorithms.

Xeelee,
Xeelee avatar

That's the main issue. Corporate social media place "engagement" above everything. This means amplifying hate and bigotry. Once you stop amplifying this shit, it becomes far less prominent and people aren't caught in a bubble any more.

Cannacheques,

I blame bots and newsfeed propaganda. Its gotten worse since Trump

Xeelee,
Xeelee avatar

It only got like this because the platforms were complicit. All in the name of "engagement".

Backspacecentury,

The mod comment is glorious in the replies:

If it truly gets under your skin that these bigoted spaces are being defederated by the nicer spaces, feel free to join a more right-wing infested instance. Just understand that the rest of the fediverse is not obliged to listen to their lunacy.

Fuckin' mike drop.

AnonymousLlama,
AnonymousLlama avatar

It's a pretty good take, but also the defederation ban-hammer seems to get dropped a bit, which seems like it should be the last option, not the first.

Surely there should be a way to mark content coming in from questionable servers with a tag so that users can choose to see it on their instance, similar to how NSFW posts can be hidden.

At least that way the content would be federated and things synced, leaving the choice up to the user.

smokinjoe,
smokinjoe avatar

Go ahead and build the feature.

Until it exists, this is the current solution.

PM_me_your_vagina_thanks,

Why give the option to indulge in that shit? They can fuck right off and live in their dumb little world with each other.

Widget,

Just in case users really wanted to see some hate speech mixed in with their regular discussions?

hypelightfly,

The choice is already up to the user. If they want to see hate they can go join a hate filled instance. There is no need to federate to make that possible.

ArugulaZ,
ArugulaZ avatar

What bothers me is that the free speech absolutists demand free speech for themselves, while offering none to anyone else. They have absolutely no problems with "echo chambers" which only echo and reinforce their beliefs... just look at any of the right-wing alternatives to Twitter, like Truth Social. It's literally in the terms of service that you can't challenge or criticize almighty Trump.

Right-wingers have PLENTY of spaces to make their idiotic opinions known... they're not starved for outlets of expression. So why come here? Sorry, but you've already got Germany. You're not annexing Czechoslovakia and Poland. Can't has, not yours.

ConTheLibrarian,

They want to bully people. They're only able to feel better about themselves by making themselves feel superior. This is why when they rely on culture wars because as soon as they don't have an enemy to hold their attention they all turn on each other out of necessity.

Hyperreality,

What bothers me is that the free speech absolutists demand free speech for themselves, while offering none to anyone else.

This Sartre quote keeps getting posted, but I'll post it again because it's still true:

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert.”

It's an old quote, because the far right haven't fundamentally changed much in a century. It's the same old shit.

You can tell a pigeon that it is wrong, that you are right, you can support your arguments with reputable studies, solid arguments, and respected expert opinion. You will still end up with shit in your hair.

Itty53,
Itty53 avatar

"Don't wrestle with pigs. You just end up covered in shit and the pig enjoys it."

BaldProphet,
BaldProphet avatar

Honestly, the constant complaining about fascism and bigotry is probably the thing I dislike about the Fediverse the most. Fascism and bigotry are horrible, and I am a descendant of people persecuted for their beliefs so it is definitely personal for me, but I just don't enjoy seeing constant complaints about it in my feed. Especially when the complaints aren't really about fascism but are actually complaints about right-wing authoritarianism or even political conservatism in general. I think I lose a few brain cells for every such thread I see.

Entropywins,
Entropywins avatar

From a political science view you are correct people like Trump are technically not a fascist...yet

BettyWhiteInHD,
BettyWhiteInHD avatar

Can you define fascism?

!deleted201250,

deleted_by_author

    •
    BaldProphet,
    BaldProphet avatar

    The Bible quote is a joke about making fun of bald guys. Talk about bigotry, you're exhibit A.

    ConTheLibrarian, (edited )

    the complaints aren’t really about fascism but are actually complaints about right-wing authoritarianism or even political conservatism in general

    You keep splitting hairs like that and your chin gonna be bald to buddy.

    FYI fascism doesn't come from a genie in a bottle... its born from authoritarianism and bigotry. Maybe you should take a break from the internet and let those brain cells grow back so that your ancestors don't have to rise from the dead and slap some sense into you lol

    nicholas,

    Y’all are just authoritarians who want to censor anything you disagree with but are cowards and too afraid to be honest about it.

    gamermanh,
    @gamermanh@lemmy.world avatar

    Smooth brain you got there dipshit

    nicholas,

    So tolerant.

    Cannacheques,

    You dropped this buddy /s

    antik,
    @antik@lemmy.world avatar

    The rules for this instance can be found here: https://mastodon.world/about.

    BaldProphet,
    BaldProphet avatar

    Welcome to the Fediverse! Remember that you are interacting with users on many different instances with various rules.

    gmtom,

    "Not wanting to be called slurs is actually fascism" - some troll on lemmy

    BaldProphet,
    BaldProphet avatar

    It's not splitting hairs, it's fighting against generalizations that isolate people and lead them to radicalization and extremism. I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make other than trolling, tbh.

    BettyWhiteInHD, (edited )
    BettyWhiteInHD avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    BaldProphet,
    BaldProphet avatar

    Buddy, not national socialism.

    sour,
    sour avatar

    because only national socialism is bad

    ._.

    BaldProphet,
    BaldProphet avatar

    What a nonsensical take. The conversation is about fascism and bigotry, bud. Fascism is literally what national socialism is. There are tons of bad things, like cannibalism or seal-clubbing. We're not talking about those.

    BettyWhiteInHD,
    BettyWhiteInHD avatar

    I genuinely don't believe you understand what fascism means. I don't mean that to be rude, or upsetting or dismissive, at least not in this comment. I think you should read up on what fascism in general, not just Nazism is.

    Here are some relatively easy to digest, helpful articles:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

    https://world101.cfr.org/historical-context/world-war/what-fascism

    https://time.com/5556242/what-is-fascism/

    BaldProphet,
    BaldProphet avatar

    Haha I know what fascism is, my guy. Not sure what point you're trying to make.

    BettyWhiteInHD,
    BettyWhiteInHD avatar

    I told you point blank what my point was: you do not understand what fascism is. Please go to those links and read.

    BaldProphet,
    BaldProphet avatar

    Lol. Goodbye, troll.

    BettyWhiteInHD,
    BettyWhiteInHD avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    BaldProphet,
    BaldProphet avatar

    You're obstinately refusing to explain yourself. What exactly am I misunderstanding to piss you off so badly?

    Entropywins,
    Entropywins avatar

    Everyone I knows hates public schools, fire departments, road and bridge infrastructure, libraries and all those other terrible socialist institutions...

    Willer,

    another useless post great

    Dick_Justice,
    @Dick_Justice@lemmy.world avatar

    Loved the comment from user @TheLurker :

    *"If you want your own unfiltered feed. Create your own instance and don’t de-federated any other instance. All the content in the feed will be available because like email, it is federated, so you only need to subscribe to the feeds. The admins do not control the content. But they do control the instances which they maintain, and rightly so.

    This is NOT A PLATFORM, it is a protocol and you have the choice to engage with it how you want. Don’t like an instance, stop using it. Use another or create your own. You will still get all the content."*

    This is just so well stated, imho. Of course the person TheLurker was speaking to isn't interested in the content, they're interested in the users so that they can troll them endlessly.

    clueless_stoner,

    We're defederating from exploding heads? That means the admins actually listened to the complaints by community moderators and looked into it. That's amazing news!

    antik,
    @antik@lemmy.world avatar

    Most content there was violating the lemmy.world rules - which can be found here https://mastodon.world/about.

    clueless_stoner,

    Yes! Thank you for holding a stance.

    getynge,

    While I certainly understand the appeal of "free speech no compromises" the evidence is real clear that any online forum that adopts that mentality invariably becomes a bigoted shitpile, I'm not going to make a choice on philosophical grounds when the reality of the situation makes itself so obvious

    bizzacore,
    @bizzacore@lemmy.world avatar

    Is it a coincidence that every single place that claims to be "free speech - no exceptions!!1!" is an absolute trash fire inside of a rat hole? NOPE. That's the Paradox of Tolerance proving itself true.

    We need to heed the warnings, and I'm glad the Fediverse exists to do so.

    frozengriever,

    Relevant xkcd for the occasion: https://m.xkcd.com/1357/

    Those "free speech" places just end up degenerating into a cesspool where people who were banned elsewhere end up congregating.

    TheGoldenGod,
    @TheGoldenGod@lemmy.world avatar

    Glad to see this as my first post away from Reddit. With spez and his pedo/incel/pro-slavery crap.

    ZeroPlan,

    This is the LITERAL first post I saw after signing up. I'm ecstatic and so fucking relieved

    CannotSleep420,

    I’m half in the loop. I saw a post the other day about several instances being federated with exploding heads, the nazi instance. Did lemmy.world defederate?

    Bobo_Palermo,

    I would prefer a free speech haven where bigots and fascists can spout their beliefs. I think its complete nonsense, but they have a right to congregate virtually. Its sad...I thought ex-redditors would understand that :(

    nicholas,

    Stupid tankie spam (which is arguably worse) is allowed but anything to the right of Karl Marx should be banned? Not sure I fully understand the reasoning behind this at all.

    TheBeege,

    I haven't seen any tankie spam, and I've been here about a week or so. Care to link to any discussion as an example? I'd be curious to see

    NegativeInf,

    The only tankie spam I've seen is from people complaining about all the tankie spam.

    xaxl,

    This is my experience too. You have to go out of your way and deliberately browse Lemmygrad to find it.

    xaxl,

    This is my experience too. You have to go out of your way and deliberately browse Lemmygrad to find it.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • general@lemmy.world
  • kavyap
  • thenastyranch
  • everett
  • DreamBathrooms
  • ethstaker
  • magazineikmin
  • cubers
  • Youngstown
  • tacticalgear
  • Durango
  • slotface
  • ngwrru68w68
  • rosin
  • osvaldo12
  • JUstTest
  • InstantRegret
  • cisconetworking
  • GTA5RPClips
  • modclub
  • tester
  • mdbf
  • khanakhh
  • normalnudes
  • Leos
  • megavids
  • anitta
  • provamag3
  • lostlight
  • All magazines
    •