We could prove it by my doing a study on all the people that rejected medicine in fav our of alternatives. Hkwever, we might find it hard. They are dead.
Dara O’Brian has a great but about what you call alternative medicine that is proven to work. We just call it medicine.
Well, that’s just childish. Pointing out that there are alternative medicines that haven’t become mainstream due to capitalist incentives doesn’t equate to a lack of empathy for those who have suffered by choosing ineffective alternative cures in their desperation.
Perhaps demonstrate a bit of empathy yourself when criticising someone else’s empathy?
Wait, I’m going to call a very famous person that loves alternative medicine, Steve Jobs. Whoops, no he’s dead because he refused to get his totally treatable cancer cured by science and chose quackery instead.
…what you call alternative medicine that is proven to work. We just call it medicine.
In fairness, that’s only if there is an existing incentive to put forward the time and the funds for multiple controlled and peer-reviewed studies.
I think almost all alternative medicine is bollocks, but alternative medicine is drawn from historical records and/or anecdotal experience. This is flawed but is also how we obtained many of the medicines we use today. Controlled and peer-reviewed studies now allow them to be called ‘medicine’ instead of ‘alternative medicine’.
I used to be completely against alternative medicine, but after a particularly awful toothache while my wisdom teeth were erupting, the established medicine salicylic acid (which itself originates from willow) was utterly ineffective, I tried the alternative medicine clove oil out of desperation. It is now the only alternative medicine I recommend. There have been studies showing it’s effectiveness, but nothing particularly notable, and why would there be? Who would be able to patent it? It is already very cheap and readily available. I wonder how many other effective treatments are underutilised because there has been inadequate research.
That being said… I won’t be drinking bleach any time soon, and as a major contributor to death globally there is a very strong incentive to research cancer treatments. Any alternative medicine claiming to treat cancer is highly dubious IMO.
Edit: In hindsight, it’s a legitimate concern that some people may read my post and take it as an excuse not to take advantage of existing treatments. I only want to acknowledge that there is sometimes a market disincentive to research existing but unapproved treatments, I don’t want people to think it’s okay to kill their child.
The essential oils industry is rife with scams and “alternative science” but some of them do actually have some (usually not as miraculous as their sellers want you to believe) actual effects.
Clove oil is used by dentists. It’s in alvogyl, which is used as an ointment for wisdom tooth probkems. That’s the point, if there is evidence it works, it becomes actual medicine, not alternstive medicine.
Yee, research is costly, yet we managed to create an entire medical industry with peer reviewed research before the rise of big pharma. Alternative medicine has lots of practitioners selling a product. Not so much research. It’s a multi billion industry. If consumers demanded it, or regulators for that matter, you can bet they’d do rrsearch. Some would probably survive (see acupuncture for back problems) however most would be proven ineffective.
The part of alvogyl derived from clove oil (and some other oils) is eugenol.
As a ‘coincidence’ eugenol is currently approved in the US as a ‘flavouring substance’. From what I could find it has no official recognition for its medical properties. I expect dentists don’t really care if one of the major ingredients of a medication they use is a ‘flavouring substance’.
Wife nil has been used for pain relief in dentistry for many yesrs… The FDA does not consider clove oil a medicine as the evidence for it is poor.
That’s how nedicine works. Someone thinks something would help. We do studies… Find out of it works and in what circumstances. Eugenol, which is the active ingredient in clove oik, not a derivatuin, works for pericoronitis and alveolar osteitis. It also works for pulpal inflammation, but it’s use is reducing as it inhibits modern dental bonding.
Dentists care about what ingredients work to aid pain more than fkavour. They don’t care if it is derived from traditional cures or not. They look at the evidence. When it worjs, they call it medicine, which is my point.
It looks like you’re contradicting yourself to me. You argue that clove oil is a medicine so my claim it should be considered one doesn’t apply, then you come back and say the evidence that it is a medicine is poor, which is why it is not approved by the FDA… Which is exactly MY point.
Clove oil is no longer used, medically, but eugenol is used in multiple dental medicines to have a proven pain relief effect.
Right. You are still claiming that eugenol is considered to be medicinal… Here is a database of all FDA medicines approved for human use. Why not show me a single medication that uses eugenol as an active ingredient?
That first link is just a research article and is not related to any government approvals/endorsements. If you disagree, then take a look at this one which is more recent and explicitly states, '…neither eugenol or other clove extracts have been approved for use in any medical condition in the United States."
It is still pretty much true, but the ‘exempt’ classification certainly complicates things. You could argue that medications that fall under the ‘exempt’ category are technically approved, but tbh it just looks like a loophole to me. Much like when such ingredients are declared as ‘inactive’ or ‘excipient’ ingredients. Regardless, I appreciate you taking in the time to put in the research when discussing this with me.
Yes, part of that evidence I was talking about. I providences the emmvidebce to show it is evidence based and the government link to show what you actually requested. Both combined shows your point is innacurate, even if food ibtentioned. Your link shows it is not useful in all the applications that alternative medicine proposes. Again, part of my point.
It is exempt is due to common usage and already proven safe and considered a standard part of drug and medicine armamentarium. It also negates your assertion that all medicines are listed. Patently untrue. Its also not a loophole.
Only medicine meeting the criteria are exempt and the link I provided is only in a formulation of zinc oxide and eugenol. Other formulations would need approval or be exempt under a different classification.
Clove oil is not a valid treatment in its own Neither is eugenol. However, it is incorporated into other medicines to improve their efficacy. Its use is reducing as despite its anti inflammatory effect it causes a reduction in bonding efficacy at the non emergency appointment later.
I’m not doing research. I know this, its my industry, I use it often and purposely avoid it often. I am not familiar with fda rules, but they are similar enough to classificiation and rules elsewhere to make it clear their intent and use.
You clearly have some grounding in science education. However, you obviously have no familiarity with the beurocracy of medicine approval or usage, nor are used to reading medical studies. I’ve had to make the same point, correctly, multiple times for you to see. Yet you still question the evidence.
Fenbendazole: Relatively low toxicity de-wormer. However, it was actually investigated as a possible chemotherapy drug… but didn’t produce notable results.
Aprocot seeds: Contain cyanogenic glycosides
Soursop tea: Contains annonacin, a neurotoxin linked to Parkison’s disease.
Dandelion root tea: Not gonna cure your cancer, but apparently fine?
Frequency therapy: Run of the mill “healing with tones” quackery
Antineoplastons: Never heard of this one. Apparently a term made up by a quack cancer center for some chemicals he found in urine.
I also find it amusing that they’re railing against chemotherapy drugs… while pushing a drug investigated as a chemotherapy drug as well as some quack compounds pushed as chemotherapy drugs. I guess it’s only bad when they’re mainstream, hipster “You wouldn’t have heard of them they’re too underground” chemotherapy drugs get a pass.
Was just about to say - you can probably find some literature on most of those that COULD sway someone who doesn’t understand statitics or peer reviewed scientific papers, but fuck me… Chlorine Dioxide? It’s fucking Bleach!
This is on the level of Trump’s “inject some bleach in me to kill all the bugs” (paraphrasing) I suppose technically that would kill the pathogens, but most of them would outlive the host it killed first.
While i agree, there’s a couple problems with that idea, imo. First–they insist on shoving their position on this down everyone else’s throat. For the most part, we’re talking about people who’s central goal in life is to interfere with other people’s liberties, choices, preferences. They aren’t content to just take their ridiculous miracle cures–they insist everything mainstream (proven treatments used commonly everywhere) are actually poison or nonsense/fake/placebos etc. Covid made it clear what type of people we’re dealing with.
The other problem is when this shit ultimately doesn’t work, they still come to the hospital demanding treatment anyway. Often treating the staff like shit because they don’t trust them plus they’re eating crow over being wrong about their conspiracy-cures. Just lovely people lol
I do agree though–they should put their money where their mouth is and pioneer a whole new field of medicine since they all know so much better than the rest of us.
People convinced that the expensive treatment is a scam and there’s a cheap cure never seem to realize that if the cheap cure actually worked it would quickly become a very expensive cure.
Chemotherapy and (some) radiation treatments are actually designed to kill patients, it’s just that they are designed to kill the cancer first/more. Side effects from most of those treatments is cancer, but since you already have cancer, it’s worth the risk.
The hard part about treating cancer, besides from that it’s a family/kind of disease and not a single thing, is killing it without killing the patient as well. Everyone has heard about a new cure that kills cancer in a Petri dish, but remember so does a gun. Getting better at targeting the treatment is what has really advanced the field in the past 20 years.
One example is rotating radiation sources which intersect in a 3D point in space. That way the total dose can be high, but the dose received by the healthy parts is low. Only at the focal point the full blast is applied, which is hopefully directly where the cancer is.
Prevention really is the way to go with cancer, by living healthier lives, eating healthier foods and getting vaccines where possible. For example the HPV vaccine is super effective at preventing a specific kind of cancer in women (and for a smaller part men). But getting girls (ages 8-14) to take the vaccine can be hard and the past couple of years have made it harder. Living healthier lives is also easier said than done, with the troubles most people are facing these days it’s more of a pie in the sky kinda thing rather than a real option.
I love rotating radiation sources that only target a tiny, precise point in 3D space. Saved my life one time, true story. The bleach and apricot tea didn’t do shit.
Something something… “and you just KNOW who is keeping this hidden knowledge away from the populace”
Also, if drinking bleach is really the cure they think it is I say let em try it. This level of misinfo is really starting to feel like a darwinian mechanism.
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