Feedback from all moderators

Hello world!

We would like to start by saying thank you ❤, no really 🙏 THANK YOU to ALL the moderators out there!

Without you folks, we would have no one to help keep our community safe and help build the communities both here on Lemmy.World and on other fine instances. To this end, we want to make sure your voices are heard 📣 loud and clear📣.

So, in the spirit of transparency, we would like everyone to know that we are looking to help out the folks working on Sublinks. Over the last several months we have grown to be more than just Lemmy.World. We’ve added platforms such as Pixelfed and Sharkey to help offer our users more diverse options for expressing themselves online. We still are very committed to Mastodon as well.

We DO NOT plan on moving away from Lemmy as a software platform at this time. Any changes in our core services would need to be discussed extensively internally AND externally with our community members. We firmly believe in the growth of the Fediverse and without the users, there would only be software, and that’s no fun!

Sooo…

The Sublinks team has written up a little survey, which we feel is both thorough and inclusive. It covers a wide range of topics, such as user privacy, and community engagement, along with trying to gauge things that are difficult when moderating.

Also please be aware the information collected by this survey is completely anonymous. As many of us in the social sciences background know, if you want the REAL feelings of individuals, they need to feel safe to express themselves.

👉

Please feel free to comment in this thread, we will do our best to respond to any genuine questions.

We look forward to hearing from each and every one of you!

=Sincerely,
Fedihosting Foundation

PS … also if this sounds like a corporate press release to you folks, we still punk 🤘😜🤘

Badeendje,
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

Can you help me understand what the first 6 questions have to do with the survey subject of moderation? They seem to collect personal information without direct bearing on anything.

solrize,

Microsoft 365? Lol.

Rooki,
@Rooki@lemmy.world avatar

Microsoft 69/420

hamid,

I want to start by saying I am extremely thankful for Ruud and the team and think that you did an amazing job with lemmy.world and I wish you success in the future.

That said, I am a monthly 30 dollar donator to Lemmy and I am not interested in Sublinks. I read through the threads and my take is that I think the motivation for the development of it goes against my personal politics and mischaracterizes nutomic and dessalines. While I appreciate the nature of open source to open up avenues for people to act as they think is best, I do not want to leave the Lemmy.

Ahead of a migration to Sublinks I hope there comes a cleaner way to move communities off lemmy.world. If I had known how the Fediverse worked 11 months ago I would have self hosted an instance and shared my communities that way as to not be defederated from people I want to be federated with. Additionally I think that having a single huge lemmy instance is not great for the architecture of the fediverse as a whole and even if there were no changes planned or being considered. I think that many instances hosting communities is preferable to having large ones like lemmy.ml and lemmy.world.

Again I totally get that this is provided free and as is and as such you are free to make the decision you think is best. Even though I am a difficult person, I very much appreciate you, your team and what you are trying to accomplish. Thank you.

ruud,
@ruud@lemmy.world avatar

I really hope there will be an option in Lemmy and Sublinks (and bin,mbin etc) to move communities between instances. But I think that’s not very easy. I agree that having a few large instances isn’t how the fediverse is meant to be. Ideally there would be a separate instance for each community.

SorteKanin,
@SorteKanin@feddit.dk avatar

It does sound very complicated. You’d probably need both instances to agree to the transfer somehow and then you’d need to transfer all the data (old posts from before the two servers federated for instance).

It would probably need to be built into ActivityPub if it should really work between different Fediverse services too.

spaduf,

It’s probably not worthwhile to transfer the data. I would say the subscriber base alone get’s you pretty fare.

Blaze,
@Blaze@dormi.zone avatar

Additionally I think that having a single huge lemmy instance is not great for the architecture of the fediverse as a whole and even if there were no changes planned or being considered. I think that many instances hosting communities is preferable to having large ones like lemmy.ml and lemmy.world.

May I ask why you didn’t move to another generalist instance? It’s a two clicks operation now to export and import settings from the settings menu

Rooki,
@Rooki@lemmy.world avatar

I would have asked the same question, just do it earlier than later or then add a note, on where to find your new community if you want to move your community too. That is sadly a software limitation and would be irritating if a whole community can just swap instances.

hamid, (edited )

Because I don’t want to make a lateral move to another instance hosted by someone like you and would prefer to do it myself. I work full time and it took me a few months to figure out how to deploy and maintain my instance before I put it to production.

edit: English is not my first language, I didn’t mean this to sound attacking. When I said someone like you I meant in general someone that I do not personally know and sometimes the way English speakers cloak language is not clear

Rooki,
@Rooki@lemmy.world avatar

Ahhh ok, i wish you good luck with your instance! If you need some tips or help i know a good guy on the LW team ;D .

hamid,

Because 10 months ago I chose to host c/veganhomecooks here. I do now use my own instance that I run out of Azure and plan to figure out a way to move my comm there but that is not easy to two click and move, I would lose all the subscribers and posts and it would not be cached on any other federated server. It is currently the largest and most active vegan focused community on the fediverse and do not want to leave it behind.

Blaze,
@Blaze@dormi.zone avatar

I see. Well, good luck with this. If that helps, I noticed that if you communicate openly with your community, explain a progressive plan, the transition can go quite smoothly (I moved communities from LW in the past).

Losing the posts sucks indeed, maybe we should bring this topic as its own thread to see if someone wants to work on a tool to allow export and import of posts.

TexMexBazooka, (edited )

Come on over to lemm.ee kids! We will stay on Lemmy and don’t curate your feed ❤️

Kierunkowy74,
Kierunkowy74 avatar

You mean lemm.ee, huh? :)

TexMexBazooka,

Yeah 😞

Gork,

Thank you, corporate press release overlords.

laverabe,

Is there an alternate survey site that could be used other than Microsoft? The site is pretty much impossible to see in dark browser mode as well (light grey text on white background).

Aside from that though, what is the difference between Lemmy and sublinks?

Lifecoach5000,

I’d like to know this as well. Perhaps better mod tools?

SorteKanin,
@SorteKanin@feddit.dk avatar

They say they plan for better mod tooling, but so far it’s still not released so it’s difficult to know how it will be different or better (and whether Lemmy will get better tooling by that point also).

Rooki, (edited )
@Rooki@lemmy.world avatar

Better mod tool and a more common and well known programming language. A seperate team for UI/Design and API, so that the development goes faster and goes to multiple checks before it gets released. It is lemmy api compatible, so your iphone or android app will still work.

Sublinks has a roadmap too, to give everyone a glimpse where everything is and what is planned. And Sublinks developers welcome everyone that want to support the project, even non developers that want to input their ideas or personal experience.

Sublinks will add some moderation tools for mods and instance admins, to have a better control over their instance and to reduce spam, trolls or illegal content ( not pirated but that BAD porn stuff )

j4k3,
@j4k3@lemmy.world avatar

We DO NOT plan on moving away from Lemmy as a software platform at this time.

Well that is concerning.

SuckMyWang,

Clock is ticking

j4k3,
@j4k3@lemmy.ml avatar

Ticking for what exactly?

Syrc,

To be fair, they can’t see the future. People can change their minds. Better to write something like this than say “we will definitely always support Lemmy” and then in 5 years say “lol that was a lie”.

DandomRude,
@DandomRude@lemmy.world avatar

If the Lemmy admins can’t make a living from it, that’s the Lemmy community’s fault.

grue,

Is it?

I was under the impression that Sublinks was basically a drop-in replacement for the backend of Lemmy, just with better mod tools. If Lemmy.world switched to it, would normal users (not mods) even notice or care?

Cowbee,

From what I can tell, it’s more worrying that .world is trying to essentially build up a new site like Mbin, from the ground up, in Java, rather than just working to make Lemmy better. It appears to be a severely underestimated workload for no benefit whatsoever, other than “better” mod tools, which could be folded into Lemmy either way.

grue, (edited )

Yeah, I agree reimplementing the protocol in Java instead of Rust seems like a downgrade. I think part of the reason for Sublinks is creative differences with @Dessalines, but even if the problem is getting upstream acceptance for patches (edit: and it isn’t) it seems more efficient to fork the existing code than to start from scratch.

But it’s their time to waste, so whatever. ¯⁠\⁠⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠⁠/⁠¯

Edit: I stand corrected.

nutomic,
@nutomic@lemmy.ml avatar

We have never rejected any patches from lemmy.world admins or from sublinks developers.

phoneymouse,

I think Sublinks would like to ultimately hijack Lemmy’s user base and take the project in a different direction. They’ll maintain a Lemmy-compatible API until they have a critical mass of instances/users using it and then do as they please. Based on what I’ve read, Sublinks people don’t like the Lemmy developers or at least the tech choices and way the project is managed.

I guess I can understand that, but I’m skeptical of their intentions too. And, as a Java engineer myself, I find it pretty annoying that they’re pushing a Java backend over the existing Rust one. Seems like a step backwards.

dojan,
@dojan@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t know. I’m not beholden to a single platform. I use Lemmy with like three different clients too (Tesseract is by far my favourite for Desktop) so the “Lemmy” I care about is essentially just an API. The link above says

It features a Lemmy compatible API, allowing for seamless integration and migration for existing Lemmy users.

The way I read that is “you can use the existing Lemmy clients to connect to a Subkey instance.” Further it says

Embracing the fediverse, it supports the ActivityPub protocol, enabling interoperability with a wide range of social platforms.

Meaning we’ll likely be able to at least view Sublinks content via lemmy, if not interact with it like any other Lemmy community/post. In that case, who cares if it’s not Lemmy? To the end-user it might as well be.

My main concern is that a lot of jumping around would mean we’d lose users each jump. Eventually we’d just have empty halls with no content. Knowing that Subkey is out there as an alternative in case the developers of Lemmy decide to pull the plug, or something else happens with it, is heartening.

j4k3,
@j4k3@lemmy.world avatar

I love tesseract! Thanks so much for mentioning it. This makes .ml more like Alexandrite.

Based on some comments here I think I will likely leave .world when they stop or try and change to sublink. It looks like that is the imminent goal. Tesseract makes it much easier to leave. Thanks again!

dojan,
@dojan@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, Tesseract is fantastic. Though I’m sure you could use Alexandrite with .ml as well, provided the client and API versions are compatible. Tesseract has some additional discovery features and such too, I believe.

For all we know though, one might even be able to migrate from Lemmy to Sublink. Like I said, they could swap over from Lemmy and we might not even notice it. I don’t really see the problem.

Serinus,

in case the developers of Lemmy decide to pull the plug

They literally can’t. It’s open source and publicly licensed. If they abandon the project (or even if we don’t like their direction), it can be forked (copied) and maintained by someone else.

dojan,
@dojan@lemmy.world avatar

Yes but that requires someone else to do the work. If Sublinks takes off instead, why stick with Lemmy?

Anyway it’s all conjecture right now. We have lemmy, things are working just fine.

asdfasdfasdf,

Why? Am I not up to speed with something?

dingus,

Personally, I don’t give a shit about all this weird BS and infighting. I moved to Lemmy simply because my Reddit client was killed. I could give less of a shit about FOSS and finding 10,000 different platforms that everyone and their mother is now creating. I hope that lemmy.world doesn’t end up going away. All I want is a community to interact with, not a constantly fracturing platform with weird political infighting.

SorteKanin,
@SorteKanin@feddit.dk avatar

All I want is a community to interact with, not a constantly fracturing platform with weird political infighting.

This is part of why some people (myself included) are skeptical about Sublinks - I’d rather see us all gather around Lemmy, which already exists and is open source, rather than duplicate effort across different implementations.

However realistically speaking, over time more implementations will probably appear, because people won’t agree on what to build or how to build it.

In some ways that is good as well - it gives choice for users about what software to use, just as users can choose their instance and apps and such. But I think it’s a little early to start something new while Lemmy is still so new.

setsneedtofeed,
@setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world avatar

We DO NOT plan on moving away from Lemmy as a software platform at this time.

At this time

Hmm.

elbarto777,

Hmmmmmm…

Tarquinn2049,

They just wanted to head off anyone assuming that, due to adding support for other platforms. And leave it open in case lemmy tanks in some way at some point. All we can know is our current intentions, we can’t know what our intentions will be if things change in the future. We can guess, but only so accurately.

deweydecibel,

Will there be a user survey too?

Rooki,
@Rooki@lemmy.world avatar

We will be looking into that after the current form is over.

Thank you for your great idea! This could give sublinks just a little bit better understanding on the overall situation.

unreasonabro,

EAT IT, CORPO

;)

edit: this is where you grumble “fkn punks”

gurmeci,

::: spoiler spoiler
hello word too
:::

A_Random_Idiot,

PS … also if this sounds like a corporate press release to you folks, we still punk 🤘😜🤘

"YES FELLOW KIDS, WE ARE ALSO, HOW YOU SAY, STILL DOWN WITH “IT” "

Rooki,
@Rooki@lemmy.world avatar

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/4ca6fd1e-3e6c-4353-ae30-84da9787a72a.png

victorz,

It?

Uh, yes, I, too, am down with IT. 🎈🤡

Rooki,
@Rooki@lemmy.world avatar

😱

DontTreadOnBigfoot,
@DontTreadOnBigfoot@lemmy.world avatar

I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!

A_Random_Idiot,

is this a quote? I could have sworn I’ve heard this before.

littlewonder,

Grandpa Simpson

A_Random_Idiot,

Ah yeah, I remember it fully now with that tid bit firing up the neurons.

vlad76,
@vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

When’s the IPO?

Rooki,
@Rooki@lemmy.world avatar

I think next year 1.4.2025

testeronious,

if this sounds like a corporate press release to you folks, we still punk 🤘😜🤘

dude that sounds even more corporate 😂😂😂😂

Just kidding, xoxo <3

OpenStars,
@OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

fr fr no cap skibidi rizz 😜

jaybone,

Deadass slaps, fam.

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