Queer people are getting their rights violated and removed in real time, and now we have ppl from all across the political spectrum arguing over a flag I have never seen before.
At this point, I’m convinced that the flag is an intentional psyop designed to sow division in the community over colours on a rectangle to distract from actual issues.
Few people around these parts care about their state flags (well, except Bavarians, I guess, they’re kinda our Texas if you think about it), but that’s still a fun analogy.
We don’t put too fine a point on it either. But occasionally, I’ll look at a flagpole and see the national flag, a state flag, and sometimes a Canadian flag. It’s nice to see occasionally.
Same with sexuality/gender flags. Makes me smile a little when I see a bi/lesbian/trans, etc. flag out in the wild :)
That flag design is a travesty. I’m sorry, but it just is.
The progress flag looks okay, but this just is not it.
Isn’t the rainbow supposed to symbolize diversity? I mean, maybe you want to highlight a specific identity, but then each also happens to have it’s own flag nowadays which you can use…
Sadly, there will always be people pulling “All lives matter”-esque b.s., even on the Left. What’s even sadder is that they’ve (consciously or otherwise) bought into the Right-wing narrative that not including every group equally when showing support is exclusionary to people or characteristics that are not in fact in need of that support, but also, as we see here, sometimes even taking the stance that only they get to determine the version that is ‘properly’ inclusive, not anyone else.
To wit, if the standard Pride flag is meant to represent everyone, equally including cisgender straight white folks, then it’s by definition not a symbol of especial support for marginalized folks. If it’s not inclusive of cisgender straight white folks, then who else is it not inclusive of, if the colors aren’t actually being mapped to specific groups?
It makes perfect sense to me why variations have emerged, and there’s no need to try to pare the field down artificially. New flags emerge all the time, and fall in and out of use. Flags are a choice about how you present yourself, in choosing to fly them, and it’s not anyone’s place to be telling other people they are beholden to use a certain flag.
“We have a flag that represents you all, but your communities don’t get to decide if it represents you, or if you would be better represented in another way, you listen to me!” - Such a very inclusive mindset! /s
I consider then immediately disregard the possibility that due to an ever increasing number of marginalized groups being included, the flag will eventually devolve into piece #196 from the babel image archives
Can somecritter please explain to me how it’s June <.< My sources inform me that it’s April and I think that April is not June.
Also if being a little extra inclusive is “sowing division” then maybe the community in question has some serious issues with gatekeeping or some other kind of exclusivity. Like, damn, multiple flags can exist at once. If this one cracks someone’s ass they’re free to fly another instead. No need to demand I buy three bits of cloth if I’m happy just using one.
I think more flag designs are a good thing. It’s not like this bi-inclusive flag means it’s now illegal to fly the previous version of the progress flag, or an identity-specific flag. Everybody can just pick a flag that resonates with them and allows them to express themselves.
Given the unprecedented attacks on trans folks and the much higher murder rates of poc queers I think giving them space on the progress flag is more about making a statement about inclusivity and intersectionality than anything else.
Trying to include more groups like bisexual is just missing the point and people arguing that the progress flag should stay the way it is (although no one is talking about the intersex inclusive one which is an interesting statement on the erasure of intersex individuals), is more about the recognition of that statement and trying not to water down the message with a dash of design because it’s already pretty crowded.
Ultimately I do not care which flag you fly. It’s okay to say that you don’t like the design of a particular flag, but you should stop a second before commenting that and think a bit about what you could possibly accomplish with such a statement. It’s not your flag and you’re not flying it, so ultimately does it matter what you think of it’s design? Do you walk up to people with shirts you think are designed poorly and say “your shirt sucks, get a new shirt”? All you’re going to do is make them defensive and you’re pretty likely to start a fight, especially if you go off on some weird tangent about how you think the flag is bigoted in some fashion. The old adage ‘if you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say anything at all’ is pretty much designed for situations like this.
Yeah. Personally, I find it encouraging to see the progress flag, because it explicitly states its support in a world that’s sometimes hostile. I definitely notice when people actively have a problem with me being trans, so it’s nice to see people who are supportive making themselves visible.
I had an older couple of gay men treat me like a zoo animal for just hanging around drinking coffee as a trans woman at pride, in Provincetown of all places, wearing my regular clothes. Like, shoving a camera in my face and commenting to one another about how butch they felt I was. I would have dumped my drink over him if I hadn’t been so shocked. A pride flag doesn’t really tell me anything about whether you’re transphobic.
I had an older couple of gay men treat me like a zoo animal for just hanging around drinking coffee as a trans woman at pride, in Provincetown of all places, wearing my regular clothes. Like, shoving a camera in my face and commenting to one another about how butch they felt I was. I would have dumped my drink over him if I hadn’t been so shocked. A pride flag doesn’t really tell me anything about whether you’re transphobic.
Wow, so sorry you had to deal with that. 😢 Especially from older gay men who probably had to fight for their own rights when they were young.
When I look at my own environment it seems the anti-trans sentiment seems to be exploding. Especially since the fascists became the biggest party in the last Dutch elections. I’ve literally had to cut some “friends” off because I was sick of hearing their BS. Always the same tired fake facts crap too (like “they’re trying to convert our kids”)
I’m not trans but some of my friends are, and my impression is that it has become much harder for them in recent years. I always wear rainbow bands in June mainly because I thought it was all inclusive (and I couldn’t find progress ones). But I’ll try to find a progress one or a trans-flag one to wear beside it this year ❤️
I think a more direct comparison would be flying the US flag with a state flag covering half of it.
Personal identity flags are perfectly fine, alongside the rainbow pride flag or just on their own. Just don't cover over the "everyone" flag with specific identities. That's like the opposite of the flag's meaning.
You mean the flag that excludes 1/4 of the membership of the union? Combining specific symbols to try and make groups feel included only ever ends up making another group feel excluded. No one is arguing against symbols for trans people, or intersex, or POC people, just that the standard Rainbow flag was intended to represent them all.
I don’t care, im German. However, since the stars explicitly represent one state each, it makes a lot more sense than to add things to something that already means everyone.
And no star represents any specific state either. All are uniform and identical to ensure that none carry anymore weight than the others, and the layout of the stars completely changes everytime new ones get added.
The original 13-star flag supposedly represented everyone too. It seems pretty hypocritical to say that government flags can be modified to add representation but queer flags shouldn’t.
Idk, I appreciate the progress pride flag because it explicitly includes trans, intersex and poc. There’s a decent number of people who would consider themselves part of “the community” and use the standard rainbow flag, who don’t consider any identities past LGB. Its nice to be able to signal to people that you are genuinely a safe person/group/whatever who cares about the whole community and their struggles.
No. POC? Do you know how gay Asians are treated? Or eastern Europeans?
One flag for all and thats the normal rainbow. Singling out specific groups is racist.
Im ok with a black stripe, as a remembrance to the Aids crisis. But the other stuff is already included and does not need more than the normal rainbow.
The rainbow stands for anyone, its not exclusive to sexuality or gender, it stands for both.
That’s just wrong. The Rainbow Flag represents LGBT Pride and does not include BIPOC.
I don’t know why you don’t like the progress flag, but it’s not racist and it’s not transphobic and it’s not segregating. It highlights the diversity of human rights movements and points out that all human rights movements have the same goal and should work together.
Ok, then include all the other skin colores because they are “not displayed by a rainbow”
The more shit you add to a flag or acronym, the more people just don’t like it anymore. Keeping things simple is easy, yet racists (seemingly like you) feel the need to add stuff so more people feel excluded.
You do not include more people by doing this, you exclude everyone else.
The rainbow already mans everyone, and if you don’t feel included by a rainbow, the problem is on you.
Go fuck yourself. Complaining long acronyms would keep people from supporting civil rights movements and then presume or imply someone being racist for disagreeing with you. Go fuck yourself.
And the worst thing is you seemingly don’t even know shit about the topic you’re talking about yet call people racist. This discussion is over.
This discussion was over from the start, people that need more than a rainbow for the inclusion of “POC” are racist, its treating people differently based on skincolores. That is textbook racism.
I said the “progressive” pride flag is racist and arguing it being necessary to include “BIPOC” is racist because its treating people differently based on skin colores…
I understand that every non-cishet group faces their own unique challenges, discrimination, abuse, and hatred, but the whole point of the rainbow flag is to show that we are all united together.
As a trans person who’s been harassed and excluded at an LGBT event, I don’t feel represented by a rainbow at all anymore. Go do your thing LGB, since I’m not welcome I’m doing mine. If you show me that I’m allowed to be part of you (by putting my thing back into yours) I’m coming back.
Yeah, terfs suck, but that’s not the fault of the flag. The rainbow is supposed to be the unifying symbol to unite the various other symbols. The entire purpose is that it doesn’t represent an entire any specific group, but the unity of the spectrum of human sexuality. I’m not arguing against the idea of the progress pride flag, I’m simply saying that trying to be inclusive by adding group specific symbols to what is supposed to be a unifying flag is inherently exclusionary, since groups that don’t get inclusive symbols included now feel excluded. In fact, i like the idea of adding a pile onto the standard Rainbow flag for people to express their personal identity.
For another example of this dilemma, look at the Union Jack for Terf Island/ The UK. It’s supposed to represent the unity of the Kingdoms of England, Scotland, and Ireland, yet there are actually 4 countries that make up the UK, with Wales being excluded entirely from the flag. Ensuring every group feels included on an overarching symbol is a never ending battle that will never be enough.
Humans (individually and otherwise) and humanity are constantly growing and developing and changing. There’s never going to be an end to where we can go and what we can be, so why would there be an end to our attempts to include and support everyone?
Reminds me that lots of people act like there’s some point at which they’re done, like they’ve reached good and can just sit there without any further effort. This is wrong. There is no end. Good is a way of life, not a mark on some paper. We must carry on our efforts, always, never imagining we’ll complete the task of “good.”
My point being, why not try to evolve a flag? We evolve, the flag evolves. Maybe some time we need a new new one that includes everycritter. We’ll always be changing so our expressions of ourselves and our communities will also necessarily change. This isn’t a matter of solving an engineering problem once; it’s a matter of endlessly varying human nature and expression.
Really hoping I managed to express some of that well 😅 Bit repetitive I guess but I struggle with concision 🤷
The entire purpose is that it doesn’t represent an entire any specific group, but the unity of the spectrum of human sexuality.
A minor point to bring up here, but being transgender is about gender, not sexuality, and I think you unintentionally just highlighted a very good reason why including the trans flag can help make that statement of inclusion and unity.
There is no racism against whites, idiot. You aren’t being denied jobs, getting houses, being shot by the police for no reason, or being harassed on the streets openly because you’re white.
Stop bitching around and deal with the fact that you’re not a king/queen/monarch anymore you absolute moron.
Lmao, tell that to Romanians or Polish or Russians/Ukrainians or Jews or Hungarian.
There is 100% racism against so called white people. But this isn’t about white being not included, this is about treating people differently based on skin colores, wich is already given by putting brown on the flag because its singling them out, even the goal of highlighting the most oppressed part of LGBT is absolutely dogshit as, for example many Asians are treated way worse when they come out as gay.
Im very against the whole “white people” thing as most northern Eurasien humans are kinda white and discriminate against each other very very much.
Discrimination isn’t just about your slavery problem you have in USA its just all treating people differently because they look a little different.
I’m leaving this comment up because I think it’s fine to point out that the rainbow stands for anyone. But I’m also leaving this reply here to let you know that you need to disengage with this thread. Insisting that a pride flag is racist is not exactly creating a welcoming environment here or being nice to people who feel included with specific flags which highlight their identity.
So a pride flag that is clearly textbook racist is good and arguing against it and the people that say its better because of the racism is not allowed here? Ok.
So a pride flag that is clearly textbook racist is good and arguing against it and the people that say its better because of the racism is not allowed here
when you call them racist and imply they’re segregationist for having their preference, yes, that is not allowed. that’s needlessly aggressive and needlessly sectarian—and speaking personally, “having a preference for more stripes on a flag that represent marginalized communities is racist and like segregation” is just such an overstatement of the point (that i otherwise agree with, for the record—i am not a fan of the progress flag) being made that it verges into being unserious.
Im not implying that, its just a fact that treating people differently based on skin colores is racist. If thats in a positive way or a negative one, is completely irrelevant. Its racist.
i don’t think “adding race-specific stripes to a pride flag” is a bad thing, is “treating people differently based on skin tone” except in the most cringeworthy, pedantic, I See No Color way possible, or is “racist”—and i think that if you believe these things you probably will not be allowed to partake in discussions like this on our instance after today
If you say so. I don’t think its ok to be racist, but if you think differently ban me for being against racism and saying a all inclusive rainbow is all inclusive.
That’s such a strawman reply. Nobody in this conversation thinks it is okay to be racist. You would not be banned for being anti racist, and implying that you would be is part of what you’re doing wrong here.
A new one I’ve seen (not the one in the article) was basically just every pride flag stitched together. I thought it looked ugly as hell and that the regular rainbow one already includes everyone; that’s why it’s a rainbow.
this is “all lives matter” all over again. I don’t mind a flag that recognizes trans and POC folks, who out of the LGBTQ community are discriminated against the most.
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