With support ending for Windows 10, the most popular desktop operating system in the world currently, possibly 240 million pcs may be sent to the landfill. This is mostly due to Windows 11’s exorbitant requirements. This will most likely result in many pcs being immediately outdated, and prone to viruses. GNU/Linux may be these computers’ only secure hope, what do you think?
Marketing is monopolized with Google and Facebook. Manufacturers and Microsoft won’t make one-click installs happen. Tech support would be chicken and egg problem. Ugh…
The solution is donate them. Don’t send them to a landfill. Give poor students a free laptop with Linux installed, etc. There are probably thousands of uses for an old computer that are better than sending it to a landfill.
Maybe there should be a centralised GitXXX documentation „Windows to Linux” with everything from choosing a distro to troubleshooting and links to appropriate wikis. There are so many guides/blogs, each saying something different
True, but I’m sure there could be something like „awesome-xxx” that’s just… one main one. Maybe I should just try doing that myself with my limited knowledge, I can’t really code, but I always wanted to contribute somehow
It is far too confusing what to use - even as someone who uses Linux on various servers, a media centre, WSL and used to run a Gentoo laptop I still don’t know which distro to use, let alone which of KDE/Gnome, X11/Wayland, init/systemd etc.
Use whatever is popular and has a cool logo. Distro is basically a software library, preinstalled programs and default settings. You can transform any distro to behave like the other one.
KDE, Gnome, XFCE…? Which is looking better for you or which one was default. Init system? Which was the default. X11/Wayland? Wayland. Go with X11 only if Wayland is having problems with your graphics card.
None of the main adobe suite works on Linux either, so let’s not pretend my use case is so narrow. Literally none of the programs I use to work (Cubase, Audition, After Effects, Illustrator, Premiere, yes I can install a virtual windows machine but that completely defeats the purpose) works with Linux. And from what I gather last time I researched this, hardly any audio interfaces are Linux compatible. Most of the games I want to play also are not Linux-compatible.
Fact of the matter is, despite the large dedicated userbase (which I appreciate), it still has a giant gap where many prosumers and casual users cannot utilise it. It’s no good saying “ahhh well YOU’RE not compatible with US! No u!”. I’d love to switch and tbh am strongly considering a setup for live PA that’s Linux based, in the hope that it brings greater stability. But it’s going to be a large investment of time, and I’ll have to buy a different audio interface if I have a hope of making it work.
And this is a huge barrier for a lot of users, a massive roadblock. But the article talk about houndres of millions of computers, my point was just about that even if millions like you cannot switch, still in this statistics are millions that can especially non-professional that do not make audio or video, but that are going to throw away a working machine.
I feel like you might feel being personally directed by my comment, because of your respond with “YOU’re not compatible”. Maybe it was bad wording, sorry. What I ment was that it can be frustrating to see “Linux doesn’t support …” when actually it has everything needed to support this software and the burden to make it available is on the software developer. Like saying that USB-C doesn’t support iPhone 13. Lack of it still hurts the Linux side anyway, but I just don’t want misconsaptions about which side should make a port happen.
Yep I definitely took it wrong, one of the problems with text only communication… No body language or audio cues! No worries.
The devs of my audio interface have definitely been asked a fair bit about Linux compatibility… But considering they’ve not even bothered bringing their new DAW to PC, it seems they’re strongly focussed on mac ecosystems only for the foreseeable.
Personally I think compatibility should be a two way street pun not intended! But unfortunately companies tend to vote with our wallets, so until Linux becomes even more established I doubt they will dedicate much if any resources to making their devices work on it. Shame.
I bought a new audio interface for live work a few months back, went for an audient id24 partly because it’s Linux compatible (although no native drivers). So I will get stuck in at some point. I started using PCs back when floppy disks were actually floppy so I’m not afraid of command line stuff!
For me, it’s not the DAW (Reaper works fine), but this is not the case for every DAW and it must be recognized that switching DAWs is non-trivial (nor should it be expected). In my case, it’s the HW. I can likely get my interface to run (unsupported) but my Maschine is a non-starter. Yes - I know there are a few drivers for similar HW around written by clever folk who’ve done reverse engineering, but it only covers a few minor use cases and is, at best a science experiment and not something one should ever depend on even if it did work.
SW is a problem too - yes most plugins can be coaxed into working, but certainly not all. Add to that the underlying tech is usually wine, and it’s a perpetual game of whackamole to maybe get the stuff you paid for to run.
The folks writing these bridging tools are not too blame - it’s brilliant, wonderful work. Fundamentally, it’s an act of good will that one can’t rely afford to fully depend on if it even does work. I love FOSS, but it’s not everything - I certainly don’t expect a free ride, but I do want the option to pay to run what I want.
The issue is the HW and SW manufacturers - they need a critical mass of potential users to be bothered to commit to developing for Linux. My hope is that as user bases grow (in places like India) the cost/benefit analysis shifts.
At most, you might be able to get midi mode to work (if you scrounge the internet for experimental and old reverse engineered scripts.) But almost certainly not the core Maschine functionality (ie - the main reason for buying maschine in the first place).
Even if you can get it to work none of it will be supported and you’re always at risk of an update rendering things inoperable.
It’s worth noting that only the old Native Access installer runs in wine (with coaxing). The newer one does not, and from what I’ve read, the break points are features that will never be supported in wine.
Wine is clever, but it’s always an incomplete game of whackamole. A workaround at best.
The Adobe case is a big one. For me, it’s lightroom that has no real Linux counterpart. The app itself isn’t where the magic is - darktable exists. The magic is in the interapp interoperability - bi-directional syncs and edits in any platform. FOSS is very unlikely to create something like this (would love to be wrong) as it’s less of a tech challenge than an enterprise architecture challenge with a component systems falling in line. This sort of thing requires money to be executed effectively, unfortunately.
Really hope overall user base in Linux can grow enough to catch attention of SW/HW manufacturers, but have been hoping this for many, many years…
Exactly. I tried using Linux and I just don’t understand how to use it, and I consider myself fairly tech savvy. It would bring my productivity to a grinding halt if I had to switch to Linux.
There are many many outdated patterns how to do things in Windows that are cemented in public knowledge. Running random executable installers from the web giving them superuser permissions is I thing the most popular one.
How to share all user settings between system installations? How to change the logo in the desktop bar? How to add a directory to an applications bar? How to change system build-in keyboard shortcut? How to reinstall just the system keeping the programs? How to make a file run on a shortcut? Those are things I use daily, that are impossible or need some hacky programs to work on anything other than Linux, I would die if I had to switch back now.
I'd also bet that a huge portion of those offices rely on at least some kind of proprietary software that doesn't play nice/officially support Linux. MS Office, for example, or Autodesk's stuff. When I saw what a headache it would be to get these working on Linux, I just shrugged and decided I'd keep my dual boot available for when I inevitably have need.
You're turning up the cost dial for every additional workaround or adjustment you ask of people. Just to save what is fundamentally seen as $50-200 up front cost on a system for a new Windows 11 Pro license.
The article and post title itself alludes to the fact that windows 11 won’t support millions of machines, so a w11 license is useless. And if you meant you can buy a PC that supports w11 and is worth using, for $50, I need to consult with you for the world’s best shopping tips
Depends honestly but for most people it will work fine if you use something like Pop OS, Nobara, or other distros that set it up for you (or you know how to set it up yourself but that’s unlikely to be the case)
Although I’m not surprised, it is interesting that the same big tech companies like Apple and Microsoft taking stances on being “environmentally conscious” while also ignoring forced obsoletion of old hardware. Your average office environment just needs basic email, document/excel editing software and a browser. Now to continue to do these base functions, they have to buy new PCs to do the same exact thing. And it’s not even faster anymore due to the bloat.
If tech wants to preach about the environment, they best start figuring out ways to keep computers out of the landfills.
Although I’m not surprised, it is interesting that the same big tech companies like Apple and Microsoft taking stances on being “environmentally conscious” while also ignoring forced obsoletion of old hardware.
That’s purely greenwashing marketing hype, with Apple being the worst offender. Now Microsoft seems to be following in their footsteps, although they’re still better in this regard than Apple.
Was it EVER faster though? My experience with Windows has always been that they release new versions based on upcoming hardware specs and unless you spend top-dollar on the very latest hardware for their next release, you are going to see things moving slower on the new desktop. That’s one of things I’ve enjoyed about linux, you can pretty much always upgrade the OS on an older machine without concern of taking a hit on the performance, and sometimes you even get a boost.
If the bottom laptop is a Dell Latitude I think they don’t recommend stacking them at all, but with HP Elitebooks I think we got away with stacks about 15-20 high before we had the risk of getting damaged screens. Probably 10x that before structural failure, but they’d more than likely compress down instead of one side before the other.
If you assume they're all 13" wide laptops and stacked them on their side to get maximum height per unit, you'd still fall 305,752 km short of the average lunar distance. You normally only see this level of hyperbole in the estimated street value cops give for drugs they seize, pretty impressive.
I get the reason for hyperbole, I just hate when it’s so clickbaity. I wish they would just be more honest with us. If you assume they’re all small form factor Dell Optiplex 3070 desktops, you could make a cube of computers as tall as the Burj Khalifa.
Capitalism must feed. And, if we don't give them huge electronics landfills to search for scrap, what are our children and grandchildren going to do for work?
...What does the writer think support end means? Microsoft bricks the PC as soon as the support period ends?
They're going to just keep using Windows 10, security be damned. Probably a good number of users who weren't keeping their PC up to date even when Microsoft was forcing updates on them.
This. A lot of our lab’s instruments are proprietary garbage. I wish the people buy these extremely expensive instruments would actually research if there’s open source alternatives or help pressure the government’s into forcing the code to be open. A lot of (public) spending for research is due to this sort of bs “instruments which only works with its own proprietary software” btw. The other good portion is eaten up by scumbags like Elsevier and other publishers.
As long as that machine is disconnected from the internet it’s OK but as soon as you connect it you are cooked.
It’s been getting absolutely worse and worse with hardware as they shovel crap at you and then also expect you to buy subscriptions to make it usable. Keysight/agilent/ whoever they are had been really annoying about this.
I work in the behavioral health field as an IT security admin and network with hospitals/health clinics all all the time. The amount of them using XP and 7 in some capacity should scare everyone. The other security admins know it’s an issue, but they just laugh it off.
I tell them if I were an immoral man, their company would be compromised just based off of that information.
Yeah I work for an emergency management SaaS company and we block outdated OSs and browsers and it’s wild how we will occasionally get pushback from potential new customers who are surprised we don’t support their outdated IT infrastructure due to the security risk
I tried to use XP in a vm a while back. The latest browsers that would run on it could barely view most websites. web standards are insanely different compared to 2005 or whatever, and a lot of sites weren’t even usable
Firefox I remember. I feel like the newest version that would install on XP was like v7 or something. an incredibly old version, whatever it was. I think I tried chrome too and maybe couldn’t even find an installer that would work. Can’t remember for sure.
For 240 million devices I think there would be some Linux can “cut it”. And second, no? My computer is 13+ years old and I am using it with basically no lagging, developing a couple of apps. Truth is all medium-tier computers made today and in recent years have reached the point where for normal use (that is daily tasks like communication, content consumption and calculations) only limiting factor for daily driver is software optimization.
Probably meant that Linux wouldn’t be appropriate for whoever’s needs. That can be true for some cases, not really for casual browsing use cases when pretty much 99% of all the major players in the browsing industry maintain a Linux port.
not really for casual browsing use cases when pretty much 99% of all the major players in the browsing industry maintain a Linux port.
Those users couldn’t care less about if Windows is supported or not. They wont send their 240 million computers to the landfill, they’ll just keep using them.
Either way, Windows 10 22H2 EOL is set to 14 Oct 2025 and Enterprise LTS to 12 Jan 2027. I’m sure Microsoft will cave around January 2026 whenever the first 0-day for Windows 10 22H2 Pro goes into the wild and extends support for the Pro version to 2027 as well for no extra cost. For them this makes way more business sense than having 240M machines infected giving a poor image of Windows.
I’m about to abandon/relegate my old Windows 10 PC to a backup, and replacing it with a raspberry pi 5 running Mint. I’m trying to run quieter with less power consumption.
Because the hardware is being made obsolete for a reason. They are inefficient compared to modern hardware, consume way too much power and there are cheaper and more powerful options available.
A modern ARM-based computer like the Raspberry Pi 5 can outperform most computers and laptops running Windows 10 and have a smaller environmental footprint.
The problem is that the obsolete hardware is not cost effective to decommission and recycle. They have not been designed for an environmentally conscious world.
My laptop is a cast off from a member of my staff who said it was too slow - a (dmidecode) - Product Name: HP 255 G6 Notebook PC. It now runs Arch (actually).
It previously slogged along with Win 10, Outlook n O365 n that. Now it does Libre Office, Evolution and much more. I use KDE, which isn’t known for a light touch on the resources. I also do light CAD and other stuff.
My office desktop is even older - it was a customer cast off, due to be skipped around six years ago. I did slap a SSD into it and I think I upped the RAM to 8GB. Its a (ssh, dmidecode): Product Name: Lenovo H330 and the BIOS is dated from 2012! I run two 23" screens off it and again, it runs Arch (actually) and KDE for pretty stuff. I run containers on it - at the moment a test Vikunja instance. I have apache, nginx and caddy fronting various experiments backed up with postgres and mariadb.
Both devices are “domain joined” and I auth to Exchange via Kerberos, via Samba winbind. File access (drive letters for the Windows mindset) is currently via autofs. I have a project on at a member of staff’s request to switch from Windows to Linux. I’m going to take my time and get it right. My current thinking is the Fedora KDE spin and this: Closed In Directory
If you have an old laptop or PC why not give it a go? You could start here: www.linuxmint.com Another option is to install something like Virtual Box on your existing machine and try out running it as a virtual machine or two. 2 CPUs, 4GB of RAM and 20GB of virty disc will work for any Linux distro as a VM to start off with. There’s also VMware Workstation - there’s a free version. Do discover the joy of snapshots/checkpoints which allow you to roll back failed changes!
25 years ago the options were rather more limited. I started off dual booting Windows and Linux but I don’t really recommend that these days, unless you want to run a gaming rig with both. Few people can afford two lots of top end hardware! I left Windows behind completely around 2004 or 5.
It depends on the definition of "support ended". Like, there are various forms of extended support that you can pay for for versions of Windows, and some companies do.
Support for the original release of Windows XP (without a service pack) ended on August 30, 2005.[4] Both Windows XP Service Pack 1 and 1a were retired on October 10, 2006,[4] and both Windows 2000 and Windows XP SP2 reached their end of support on July 13, 2010, about 24 months after the launch of Windows XP Service Pack 3.[4] The company stopped general licensing of Windows XP to OEMs and terminated retail sales of the operating system on June 30, 2008, 17 months after the release of Windows Vista.[114] However, an exception was announced on April 3, 2008, for OEMs producing what it defined as "ultra low-cost personal computers", particularly netbooks, until one year after the availability of Windows 7 on October 22, 2009. Analysts felt that the move was primarily intended to compete against Linux-based netbooks, although Microsoft's Kevin Hutz stated that the decision was due to apparent market demand for low-end computers with Windows.[115]
So for those, we're all definitely a decade past the end of normal support. However, they have their extended support packages that can be purchased, and we aren't a decade past the end of those...but most users probably aren't actually getting those:
On April 14, 2009, Windows XP exited mainstream support and entered the extended support phase; Microsoft continued to provide security updates every month for Windows XP, however, free technical support, warranty claims, and design changes were no longer being offered. Extended support ended on April 8, 2014, over 12 years after the release of Windows XP; normally Microsoft products have a support life cycle of only 10 years.[118] Beyond the final security updates released on April 8, no more security patches or support information are provided for XP free-of-charge; "critical patches" will still be created, and made available only to customers subscribing to a paid "Custom Support" plan.[119] As it is a Windows component, all versions of Internet Explorer for Windows XP also became unsupported.[120]
In January 2014, it was estimated that more than 95% of the 3 million automated teller machines in the world were still running Windows XP (which largely replaced IBM's OS/2 as the predominant operating system on ATMs); ATMs have an average lifecycle of between seven and ten years, but some have had lifecycles as long as 15. Plans were being made by several ATM vendors and their customers to migrate to Windows 7-based systems over the course of 2014, while vendors have also considered the possibility of using Linux-based platforms in the future to give them more flexibility for support lifecycles, and the ATM Industry Association (ATMIA) has since endorsed Windows 10 as a further replacement.[121] However, ATMs typically run the embedded variant of Windows XP, which was supported through January 2016.[122] As of May 2017, around 60% of the 220,000 ATMs in India still run Windows XP.[123]
Furthermore, at least 49% of all computers in China still ran XP at the beginning of 2014. These holdouts were influenced by several factors; prices of genuine copies of later versions of Windows in the country are high, while Ni Guangnan of the Chinese Academy of Sciences warned that Windows 8 could allegedly expose users to surveillance by the United States government,[124] and the Chinese government banned the purchase of Windows 8 products for government use in May 2014 in protest of Microsoft's inability to provide "guaranteed" support.[125] The government also had concerns that the impending end of support could affect their anti-piracy initiatives with Microsoft, as users would simply pirate newer versions rather than purchasing them legally. As such, government officials formally requested that Microsoft extend the support period for XP for these reasons. While Microsoft did not comply with their requests, a number of major Chinese software developers, such as Lenovo, Kingsoft and Tencent, will provide free support and resources for Chinese users migrating from XP.[126] Several governments, in particular those of the Netherlands and the United Kingdom, elected to negotiate "Custom Support" plans with Microsoft for their continued, internal use of Windows XP; the British government's deal lasted for a year, and also covered support for Office 2003 (which reached end-of-life the same day) and cost £5.5 million.[127]
For the typical, individual end user, one probably wants to have been off Windows XP by 2008.
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