Besides settler colonialism, there is something else going on with “meat and masculinity”: Hunting for meat was the favorite sport of the (male) aristocracy in most of Europe for centuries. The aristocratic desire to be seen as capable hunters had a unique influence on the development of masculinity, particularly in the 19th century when European aristocrats began to lose power to the rising bourgeois who - in turn - emulated the aristocratic lifestyle and adopted many of its habits.
Citations Needed podcast had an episode about the link between the colonial settler myth and eating meat (episode 139) which was really good. (Summarising very badly) Eating meat became proof of the settler dominion over the land, animals and peoples (Native Americans) of the West and was pushed to maintain the narrative.
Edit: I also recommend a recent episode of Maintenance Phase where they debunk the paleo diet and have past episodes on Peterson.
I watched Game Changers. They had a segment there where they did penis measurements after eating meat and after eating plant based, and the plant based penises had stronger and more often boners. So remind me again how it's masculine to eat animal flesh?
I think the idea is it’s a counterfactual. “if we buy into this traditional masculinity, then why is eating meat at odds with traditional male sexual performance”
My understanding of masculinity is that it is the characteristics by which other men rate a perceived level of attraction from females through which they determine a competitive standing. Men often think big muscles brings all the ladies to the yard, for example, so that is one possible display of masculinity, leaving “weaklings” to feel inadequate and of a lower standing.
My impression is that men generally believe showing off boners in public scares away the females, so it does not seem like a good candidate for being a display of masculinity. But if we assume that showing off boners is something men believe woos the women, is the aforementioned difference noticeable in practice? Science can reveal a lot of things that nobody would ever realize living out regular day-to-day life.
This is a pretty narrow version of masculinity that I don’t think anyone would agree with. Or even find useful.
You don’t show off a boner in public to show masculinity. However if you cannot please a woman with PiV sex via a big and hard penis, yes, this would challenge your sense of masculinity.
Does it make a man feel masculine to have a big bank account? Even if no one knows his salary or net worth? What about underwear? If no one sees your pink underwear in public would it challenge someone’s masculinity to wear it?
Does it make a man feel masculine to have a big bank account?
Not in and of itself.
If men believe that a big bank account attracts women, then one believing they have a larger bank account than another man may lead one to feel more masculine than the other (and vice versa). Of course, it depends on the culture. This may very well be the case in some cultures and not others.
Whether or not you share in my specific understanding, it is well documented that masculinity is cultural.
Even if no one knows his salary or net worth?
It’s all about perception, so what is actually true doesn’t matter. Certainly if one portrays themselves as having a high salary/net worth - e.g. driving expensive cars, wearing fancy watches, living in big houses – that may lead men to believe it. No doubt that is why men do exactly those things (at least in my culture).
If no one sees your pink underwear in public would it challenge someone’s masculinity to wear it?
Anything is possible. Again, perception, not reality. No one actually seeing your underwear doesn’t mean one isn’t thinking about the possibility of it being revealed. What if it slips out? What if you get into an accident and healthcare workers need to remove your pants to save you?
Having shinier peacock feathers doesn’t necessarily mean you are the more virile bird, but if that’s what you’ve got you are going to play it up to make other males think you are the one who will win the female’s attention.
I’ve experienced this many times myself. Been vegetarian for almost 3 years now. Male co-workers make unsolicited comments towards it when they find out I’m vegetarian.
It’s happened probably a dozen times or more. I am probably one of the most casual and tolerant non-meat eaters you’ll meet. I’ll chat openly with you about hunting, guns, best ways to cook bacon, steaks, burgers, etc.
I never preach or shame people for eating meat. Still, when guys find out, it’s a lot of:
“You’re a vegetarian? Ha, your girlfriend doesn’t have to know, we’ll let you eat meat here.”
“No wonder you’re always snacking, you only eat rabbit food!”
“Yeah, my wife tried that crap with me once, didn’t work.”
I even had a co-worker get in my face because he, “thought I said something about eating meat being unhealthy.” I didn’t say anything of the sort, but it was ironic coming from a guy who was pushing 350lbs and pounded 3-5 Mountain Dews a day.
Assumptions that I was only doing it because a woman was forcing me, or that I was implicitly shaming them for eating meat, or that I wasn’t getting my nutrition, blah blah.
Vegan here. I found that it’s exclusively those coworkers, that are really about their masculinity. It’s an important part of their personality to be a man. Those people tend to also dislike or don’t understand LGBT folks, and have strong feelings about the differences between man and woman and their places in society. They are not bad people. I like a lot of them. But it gets tiring and infuriating at times.
Sounds like some of my coworkers. I'm not vegetarian but some of the comments about the products in the warehouse are laughable. One coworker said he'd never eat fake meat. Same guy can't understand how someone could be transgender. He's a good person from all accounts I've heard but is stuck on that mindset. It's nice to have something to snack on that something didn't have to die for.
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