Additional fees not disclosed until after the products/services have been provided, and thus can no longer be refused, are absolutely illegal throughout the US. Given that there are literally thousands of localities in the US, each with their own sets of laws and many of them governing food service and labeling, how can you be sure that absolutely none of them forbid this practice?
What we don’t know is where this happened, nor what other disclosures were made. Dismissing it out of hand as impossible without these details is premature at best.
No, but you also shouldn’t assume that I’m not. You should exercise reasonable caution around me (and anyone you don’t know) instead of dismissing any possibility out of hand. I might invite my friends down to my basement. Without any evidence either way, you should not automatically trust me the same way.
Ergo, the “possibly” part of my statement. There are definitely laws that cover all sorts of things about disclosure. Ever wonder why those license agreements you see when installing software include sections in all caps? Disclosure laws that have specific requirements on what qualifies.
I also think you encounter more trustworthy businesses than I do. So many are trainwrecks behind the scenes. A couple years ago, I ate at a pizza place in Detroit. They charged a credit card fee that was not disclosed, at least not somewhere that any of us noticed. We are also the type that looks for these, and makes decisions accordingly. Was the fee itself legal? Almost certainly. Was the disclosure compliant with relevant laws? I doubt it, but I have no idea what’s required there. Western Digital openly ignores federal warranty laws. Most small business owners really have no idea what they’re doing, and will copy what they saw somewhere else without understanding it. I wouldn’t assume it was disclosed as required under local laws.
Yeah, reading this again it might have been advice for OP specifically. The wider thread had me thinking more in the context of generally if you get an extra charge. (I also happen to be in Canada, so it just registered as a normal receipt)
It looks exactly like a receipt that could be here, too. As has been repeatedly pointed out to me, there’s only 2 to 4 countries this could apply to, but you’ll excuse me for expecting the same thing as always was happening.
First, many places have a local, state, and national government. Particularly the ones that use dollars and expect an additional tip, as shown on the receipt.
My country, which has dollars and expects tips, doesn’t. And this read like it was addressing unexpected fees at restaurants in general.
Stop pretending Americans don’t do this constantly. Everyone who’s not American is very familiar with it, and honestly it’s understandable with how big and self-contained that country is. I might not even have commented if it wasn’t for the remarkable thoroughness short of that detail.
I presume you’re in Canada. Aside from calling them provinces, and possibly having a different name for your legislative representatives, are you saying you DON’T have a local, state, and national government where my advice would be relevant?
Let's see... dollar sign? Well that cuts out a lot of the world. Written in English, so that leaves about 3 countries. Australia doesn't have a tipping culture the same way we do in North America so that leaves either Canada or the US, in which case you can replace state with province and cover your bases.
Good catch, I didn't even notice the percentages. I did look at the date but of course the meal was purchased on the one day this month where that's not helpful
Don’t forget New Zealand. They do tip down under, but it sounds like they don’t recommend tips the same way.
Yeah, sure, the jist applies everywhere. OP could have saved words just saying “representitives”. That’s the part that was interesting, and now people are big butthurt I pointed it out.
Very unlikely. There's a statement at the bottom that explains what the fee is. There's a QR code at the top for more information, which OP cut off.
I doubt they went through the effort of updating their POS system, providing links to info on the receipt, and chose not to post a sign or put a note on the menu. Everywhere I have been with a service fee like this posts it, which would negate any legal issue.
Possibly. Local laws vary heavily, and could limit hidden fees like these. If the franchise is in one of these places, but the parent chain is not, it could easily be implemented despite being illegal. It’s a similar case if the local operator didn’t have the required notices in the required way, since it would be done separately. Not necessarily out of malice, but a ton of places simply do not run a tight ship. The receipt is absolutely not the place these notices are required; that’s just a convenience.
It’s also possible that the POS has a bunch of options that can easily be set by management without involving lawyers. A required tip (often for large groups, but not always) is an easy use case for this. So are the various messages, including the tipping scale, or adding a promotional QR code (e.g. scan the code to fill out a survey and get $5 off your next visit)
In any event, I stand behind my advice- check if it’s illegal, and push to make it illegal.
It’s a risk reward analysis and not strictly a 1:1 hour pay relation. No one guarantees you any positive outcome here.
Best case I get the fee removed after a short conversation.
Worst case, I have to engage in a long drawn argument still having to pay full afterwards.
Or anything in between, such as still having to pay full, but they’ll make this clearer in their menu.
best case was a simple mistake and I just have to ask politely. This can be considered very unlikely in this case because the recipient has a dedicated section for the fee, indicating that they’re not going to make any change to the bill. So the risk reward is highly leaning towards the worst case as the expected outcome.
Went out to a pizza place the other night. Thought it was a brewery (one of my favorite local brews, actually), and had been there before and enjoyed flights from them…only to find out the place was a joint between the brewmaster and the restaurateur. Brewmaster took his share, his recipes, and dipped a couple days prior.
Anyways while the food was pretty good, I mostly went for the beer and that’s a big part of why I won’t go back (they only had a couple cans from the brewery left and nothing on tap, only some other regional breweries).
But the other part is that my wife put a tip down on the slip for our party of four (us and two kids) and asked me to doublecheck her math. I thought it seemed high and it turned out they already put a tip on the bill. For a party of four. Never saw that before.
All prices stated on the menu must include any applicable surcharges. In other words, the price of the meal is also the final price. The quantity served must also be stated for drinks.
I’m honestly surprised the percentage options they offer are so low. In NYC they start at 20%, and usually go 20% 25% 30%. I’ve even seen them start at 22%
Besides from a extra fee (which would be illegal in my country), who tf could afford 32$+18%+taxes for two bowls of pasta? At my local italian restaurant you get 2 bowls spagethi for 20€ (including taxes)
It’s crazy how it’s your job to pay the workers when you’re not employing them. Just put the damn living wage into the price of the food, there, done. I’m going to a restaurant to eat stuff, not to haggle the worth of someone’s work.
I’ve been to a couple places in Denver that do this and obviously it’s bullshit. Just raise the prices! Not 18%, though, they’re 5% and started when everyone felt bad for restaurant workers during Covid. At both of them they had a disclaimer “if you disagree with this charge, we will gladly remove it”… as if that’s a comfortable thing to do to save $4.
I get mandatory tips on large parties as long as the policy is made clear before ordering. But like you said, service charges are ridiculous and so are mandatory tips for small groups.
To be honest restaurants became so expensive so long ago that we just stopped going to them. I cant even remember when that was, but it was more than 5 years ago for sure. And things sound like theyve gotten a lot worse since then so I cant see us ever going back.
Anyone who wants to rant about how Lemmy is all tankies and fringe leftists oughta come see what happens when underpaid workers have the gall to so much as stink eye a customer who doesn’t tip.
In below cost of living income jobs tipping isn’t a reward for good service, it’s the “not a callous fuckface” tax for people who actually care about making sure their fellow workers don’t fucking starve over their bosses’ greed.
Got a problem with it, call a congressman, otherwise, stop using service work if you’re not willing to pay the actual full price for the service.
Add comment