My daughter lost her social studies essay because LibreOffice doesn't have autosave on automatically.

This is about the most recent version of LibreOffice on Windows 10. I can’t speak for other versions.

My daughter worked hard on her social studies essay. I type things in for her because she’s a really bad typist, but she tells me what to write… but I didn’t remember to manually save her social studies essay yesterday, and for some reason the ThinkPad rebooted, LibreOffice crashed and we lost the whole thing… because autosave was not automatically on when I installed it.

No, recovery didn’t work. We just got a blank file.

I rewrote it for her based on the information we had and what I remembered and tried to make it sound like what a 13-year-old would write because it was basically my fault and she did do the work. I did have her sit with me as I wrote it in case she didn’t like something I wrote, but it was sort of cheating. I’m okay with that cheating since I know she worked hard on it.

First, though, I went into the settings and turned on autosave.

I like LibreOffice, but why the hell is that not on automatically? Honestly, I don’t really understand why someone wouldn’t want their documents autosaved, but I’m pretty sure most people would want that.

This isn’t fucking 1993. I shouldn’t have to remember to save a document anymore and it shouldn’t be lost forever because of it.

Like I said, I like LibreOffice. I don’t really want to trust documents to Microsoft or Google. But this was really annoying.

HarriPotero,
@HarriPotero@lemmy.world avatar

On the other hand… consider if your cat had walked over the keyboard before it rebooted and replaced it all with hhhhgggggggggggggggggggghgf before it auto saved and replaced the document. Would you still be an advocate for auto save?

It sucks to lose work, but this is clearly a user error.

JaxNakamura,

That’s why I lock my machine before walking away. That’s <windows key> + L for those who don’t know.

intensely_human,

Command-option-Q on mac

qwertyqwertyqwerty,

UXD would state that this is a software design issue, and not user error. The software should be designed with crashes and “lost” user data in mind.

narc0tic_bird,

That is true. I could’ve sworn LibreOffice had a recovery mechanism similar to MS Office after a crash.

JaxNakamura,

Even LibreOffice can only recover what has been saved. And if autosave is off, there might be less to recover than desirable. Again, that’s a UXD problem.

TheDarksteel94,

To be fair, you could just delete the faulty part or click on Undo, and just save again.

Nacktmull, (edited )
@Nacktmull@lemmy.world avatar

Auto-save can usually create a new save with a timestamp, every time it saves. It´s called incremental auto-saves.

intensely_human,

I’ve never seen this feature

biscuitswalrus,

This is an insane scenario: my software design decision is, despite recovery mechanisms like previous versions, file history, and undo mechanisms, I’m afraid if a cat uses a keyboard I’ll accidentally save changes I don’t want to a word document.

Lol. The only user error was choosing libre office instead of a user friendly software stack that has reasonable defaults and r recovery mechanisms.

intensely_human,

Yup. The fear is input that wasn’t intended to be saved, being saved.

Your inability to comprehend the scenario doesn’t erase it.

biscuitswalrus,

You realise if it’s saved you can now use features that are built into the software, that get saved, like using ‘track changes’ to accept or discard edits granually. You have file system level version control to choose previous versions, you have an undo feature built in. Three different tools to use.

westyvw,

Libre office is fine. You have no need to bash it. And it does have recovery files, this example is… odd.

A_Very_Big_Fan,

It sucks to lose work, but this is clearly a user error.

Didn’t wanna say it but yeah, 100%.

Also I was kinda suspicious of the simultaneous claim that the PC randomly restarted and LO crashed. And there’s no recovery file. But that’s probably just me. For all the faults Windows has, failing to catch programs with unsaved work when restarting isn’t one of them I’ve ever experienced.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t have a cat and we did this out at a cafe, so yes, I would still be an advocate for it. I think that most people do not have that issue even if they have a cat.

JaxNakamura,

Can confirm, have a cat and don’t have that issue. Because I lock the screen when leaving the machine unattended.

intensely_human,

ThE sCrEeN sHoULd AuToMaTiCaLly LoCk

guyrocket,
guyrocket avatar

I agree. Autosave should be enabled by default.

RememberTheApollo,

If you’re on a Windows PC oftentimes you can go to the user temp folder and find the working document there. %temp% in file explorer.

You might have to do a little digging to find out what/where it is, sometimes they’re nice and obvious in a folder named for the app creating it, sometimes it’s a string of nonsensical alphanumeric characters.

Also: You can go to the “Tools” followed by “Options” then go to “LibreOffice” and click on “Path”, temp and backup files are stored at the location listed there, too.

Either way, I highly, highly suggest you dig around for the lost doc in that folder. It’s saved my butt a couple times when I forgot to save.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Thank you for the help!

RememberTheApollo,

Good luck.

jdnewmil,

While I can understand you wanting autosave on in your situation, I much prefer autosave off because I often open files to see what is in them and do not want to automatically modify them just because I accidentally hit a key and delete it. Automatically changing stuff is a choice you should have to make, not a feature that I have to race to disable.

BlueEther,
@BlueEther@no.lastname.nz avatar

I work with 365 and have to create docs from yesterday’s version (or last weeks etc) all the time. Auto save can be a real pain in the arse.

Turn it off, save as <yyyy-mm-dd-DocName>, oh hell auto save is back on…

IHawkMike,

Just mark it as final then. This whole thread is infuriating. People working themselves into pretzels with their misguided reasons for not wanting auto-save when they really just don’t know to use the software.

OP is right. I use Office 365 and haven’t lost work on a document in over 10 years. Auto-save absolutely should be the default.

SkippingRelax,

Or not trusting autosave because they lost a document once in the 80s when autosave didn’t exist, and now they tell everyone to compulsively press ctrl-s because software can be trusted enough to drive a car, but not save a file every minute or so. Bonus point when they introduce themselves as I’m a software developer…

intensely_human,

Yeah so maybe when we trust software to drive cars, then we can talk about trusting autosave.

cathyk,
@cathyk@lemmy.world avatar

Yes. Like many here, I’ve learned to hit save A LOT. But I also want to decide when the time is right. Whether I’m writing a paper, coding, photo retouching, whatever, I flail around and experiment while working. I want to lock in my changes when I’m happy with the progress. If something goes awry I’d rather resume at the last manual save than some other weird thing I did afterwards.

intensely_human,

What freaks me out is when I open a file, make no changes, go to close it, and I get “Do you want to save the changes you made?”

leftzero, (edited )

Exactly. I don’t want my computer doing things without me telling it to. If I want it to save the file I will tell it to save the file. If I don’t tell it to save the file, I most definitely don’t want it to save it behind my back. Auto save is an anti-pattern, especially if it overwrites your manual save files.

(Saving an independent recovery file, preferably including undo and redo history, might come in handy in case of crashes, sure, but it should be optional and never on by default, out of privacy concerns; other users might use the computer, and it’s safer to assume that the previous user might not want others to see the documents they had open last time.)

Lath,

First of all, as a time honored tradition it is customary to say this: Never, ever trust an autosave. Manual saves and backup, always.

With that out of the way, yeah, libre office is kinda bad at the regular user stuff. If you aren't a fiddler who goes through options first and sets their own personal preferences, a bad time will be had.

Also, apparently crashes might reset the auto save tick depending on the version used, so check twice if it happens again just to make sure.

Ps: Never had an issue with it personally, but it's hit or miss with its users.

rainynight65,

First of all, as a time honored tradition it is customary to say this: Never, ever trust an autosave.

I’ve worked in IT and software development for 25 years, and this is literally the first time I hear someone say this, never mind call it a ‘tradition’ to say it.

Lath,

You worked in IT, not with IT. You made the bugs, but didn't experience them.
Your tradition is having users calling you for the dumbest of things and everyone you know calling you to fix their electronics.
We are not the same.

rainynight65,

I don’t know what you’re driving at, but whatever you think you know about what I’ve done and what I’ve seen, it’s not nearly as much as you think you know. I work with IT, with software as much as I work in those fields. I experience bugs as much as anyone. I’ve seen the contempt many software devs and professionals have for regular, non-technical users so many times, it manifests in their attitudes, their documentation, their responses to GitHub tickets, their UX decisions.

I don’t care if we are the same or not. Don’t make assumptions you can’t corroborate.

Lath,

You are correct. And yet, I feel I must send a "whatever you think you know about what I’ve done and what I’ve seen, it’s not nearly as much as you think you know" right back at you, random internet acquaintance.

rainynight65,

I didn’t make any assumptions about what you know or do, aside from what you think you know about me.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Also, apparently crashes might reset the auto save tick depending on the version used, so check twice if it happens again just to make sure.

Oh just fucking great. Thanks for telling me that. I think I might just try a different office suite.

Aatube,
Aatube avatar

Newer versions don't have the issue.

Cosmonaut_Collin,
@Cosmonaut_Collin@lemmy.world avatar

You can always try OpenOffice if libre office isn’t working out for you. It has all the same suite options as libre office. I think it has auto save by default. I haven’t used it in a while though.

rottingleaf,

For smaller docs try Abiword. If you are a KDE user, Calligra is nice.

wjrii,
wjrii avatar

Abiword is okay for now, I guess, but it's basically a zombie, waiting for dependencies to break:
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=412196

rottingleaf,

Maybe we’ll see orgmode format take the place in the sun it deserves

Nougat,

Unpopular opinion: Word, Excel, and Powerpoint are free on the web. Yes, you need a Microsoft account. Would it be ideal to use a FOSS product? Maybe. But schools and workplaces have a preference for Microsoft Office, so the specific skills in that office suite are going to more easily translate to real world situations, and there will be a lower chance of compatibility issues when sharing documents with other people or organizations, in either direction.

subtext,

They’re free on desktop as well. Microsoft would so much rather you learn and love their tools that they’re happy to let you use them for free because it means you’re going to keep using them as an adult / professional / senior. My parents will never leave Excel / Word / Outlook because it’s what they know and love and they’re happy to pay for it in perpetuity.

github.com/…/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts

originalucifer,
@originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com avatar

i wouldnt push excel hard here on the web. its still pretty fragile/full of incompatibilities to the point i cant use it in my day to day, i have to open the local application.

Nougat,

That’s fair, but it stands to reason that if a Microsoft web product isn’t super compatible with its own desktop product, a third party would be less so.

Diplomjodler,

Us older folks automatically hit save every few minutes. But not saving days worth of work is asking for trouble.

Emerald,

Few minutes? For me its every few seconds

leftzero,

And “save as” every few times (or every time if the document is important).

I lost a lot of work hours once because I was using a program that saved a backup copy every time you saved (so that you’d always be able to recover the previous version), and the damn thing crashed while saving, thus corrupting both the save file and the backup. Never. Again. Hard drive space is less expensive than my time and what’s left of my mental health.

intensely_human,

I worked as a kitchen designer and for each customer’s meeting I’d made a new file with everything the same except the date in the filename. So worst case I’d lose a day’s work.

assembly,

I still do this regularly while using Google docs even though I don’t think it has any effect.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I am an older folk. I grew up with an Apple II. I just have gotten used to autosave being on automatically in pretty much every word processor I’ve used since probably the mid-1990s. I just can’t imagine why they decided to not have it on when you install it.

braxy29,

the only time i ever lost a paper/document (at 13, for social studies), was on an apple IIc. then i rewrote it. i cried A LOT.

it has never happened since, and writing is a significant part of my job. i learned the hard way.

Neato,
@Neato@ttrpg.network avatar

Agreed. It’s standard practice now. At the very least LibreOffice should ask you on document creation if you want it on.

There’s no reason to create the extra work of the past unless you are specifically making a nostalgia product.

Diplomjodler,

Never assume something works until you’ve verified it. And even then assume it’ll break some time

ilinamorato,

I mean, yes, but also it’s a fair assumption to make that autosave would either be on or the fact that it was off would be communicated.

intensely_human,

A fair assumption maybe, but not a safe one.

BeardedBlaze,
@BeardedBlaze@lemmy.world avatar

What word processors? Even Microsoft office doesn’t have autosave on by default unless you’re working off of One Drive/Share Point online.

Why would you switch to different software and assume it works the same as another?

subtext,

Yep, my thoughts exactly… my company doesn’t want us to use OneDrive because of some security fears, so none of our work has autosave. Just because it’s 2024 doesn’t mean everything has autosave. Even working in a browser doesn’t always have autosave, I use some online programs daily that you have to remember to Ctrl + S.

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

I just can’t imagine why they decided to not have it on when you install it.

Different generational audiences expect different UX about their software, as this topic has aptly shown.

I’m sure there’s a bunch of people who would be pissed off at the fact that they only want to control when a save happens (by default), and not the app.

Personally I would expect it to be on automatically (normal modern UX), but also after I’ve written big blocks of very important text I’d do a manual save, as I don’t know where in the interval cycle between automatic saves I would be at (when’s the next autosave happening). Best of both worlds, basically.

Finally, only because I’m talking to you right now, as far as you and your child goes, only you as their parent knows what’s best for them.

Take heart that if you’re trying, you’re already halfway there, as many parents don’t even bother.

And don’t take the negative downloading you’re getting on this topic as a criticism of your parenting skills, aholes on the Internet trying to keep the world exactly how they expect it to be from way back when, and are so hung up on responsibility to a fault, are not the best sources for knowledge on how well or poorly you’re doing as a parent.

I am an older folk. I grew up with an Apple II.

I as well. Still have fun memories of loading Choplifter into my Apple via a cassette tape recorder.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Thanks much.

Also, I’m going to have to go play Choplifter now!

ericisshort,

I think your memory might be failing on this, because we’re about the same age and autosave wasn’t really a common feature in the 90s. MacOS didn’t introduce autosave until OSX Lion in 2010, and Microsoft’s auto-recover (which was their only feature even close to autosave until office365) wasn’t introduced until the 2000s and didn’t work properly until 2007.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Fair. I could very well be misremembering. I don’t have the greatest memory.

ShepherdPie,

I don’t have the greatest memory.

You should have hit Ctrl + S more throughout life.

Diplomjodler,

If only it were that easy.

intensely_human,

It does for me, but I’m autistic.

I can literally decide “I’m gonna remember this thing” and then push it into my brain in a way that I know it’ll be there forever.

ericisshort,

It happens to me more and more these days as well.

SpaceNoodle,

“Us” don’t do anything, but we do.

rottingleaf,

I’m 28, do that too. Though maybe that’s what you meant by older.

Diplomjodler,

No, whippersnapper, that’s not what I meant ;)

FrostKing,

I’m barely an adult and I do this. I think it’s less your age, and more the type of programs you tend to use—ei. programs where you may not want things auto saved, for me game engine, but there’s plenty of examples.

Chainweasel,

I was going to say, it was absolutely drilled into our heads to save after every paragraph.
My high school teacher would occasionally flip the breaker for the computers in the school computer lab just to give those of us with bad saving habits a hard reminder.

intensely_human,

Your teacher would probably get raked over the coals for traumatizing the kids if she did that now

Blooper,

Meh, only the Libreoffice kids

IWantToFuckSpez,

Nah more for corrupting some of the computers storage drives.

cholesterol,

If only computers could automate repetitive tasks. Oh, well.

Kusimulkku,

They can. Just have to turn the autosave on. Better to manually save still just in case

intensely_human,

If only people understood the tradeoffs with automation

JDubbleu,

Auto save with Google Docs style snapshots has so little overhead I’d hardly consider it a trade-off. We have insane amounts of disk storage and extremely reliable non-volatile memory. The only reason against it that I can conceive of is confidential data you don’t ever want to exist outside of volatile memory.

All modern word processors use auto save and it kinda blows my mind libre does not do this.

eager_eagle,
@eager_eagle@lemmy.world avatar

I’m feeling old right now, thx

I even impulsively hit Ctrl+S when writing comments on Lemmy once in a while

metacolon,
@metacolon@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I tend to hit ESC :w

LazaroFilm,
@LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

I sometimes ctrl+S on my web browser.

bigMouthCommie,
@bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

me too, but it's beacuse that's the emacs keybinding for incremental search

intensely_human,

So did you want this as an .htm archive or what)

negativenull,
@negativenull@lemmy.world avatar

You have to hit Ctrl+S 3 or 4 times in a row, just in case too.

bigkahuna1986,

This is how I play Pokemon yellow. Save game? Better save again just in case.

name_NULL111653,

Young folk who have lost hours of progress in robotics programming projects too… Once is enough to learn your lesson. The inevitable second time is traumatizing. By the third time, you hit Ctrl+s five times after every paragraph.

intensely_human,

I don’t think OP’s kid is gonna learn the lesson here. Sounds like Dad was handling the typing for her, and then when things screw up he’s blaming others for it. Not a good environment for a kid to learn in.

moon,

That was my sense too. OP isn’t letting his kid learn the hard lessons for themselves.

Also what kind of an excuse is it to say she sucks at typing? With practice she will improve, so let her do her own homework

regdog,

That could be a great learning experience. If it’s an important document not only do I save regularily, I also create copies of the file at regular intervals.

LordCrom,

Jesus never loses any data.

Because Jesus saves.

Bezier,
@Bezier@suppo.fi avatar

I guess it’s about what one’s used to. I’d be pretty annoyed if it started overwriting my documents when I when I do not explicitly tell it to do that.

I copy something from the document, maybe hit cut instead of copy. Now it’s gone from the original.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not sure what you mean by overwriting. With something like Office365 or Google Docs, it saves each time you type or delete a character. I don’t see any reason why that couldn’t be the same with FOSS software.

Bezier,
@Bezier@suppo.fi avatar

Overwrinting as saving the (unwanted) changes over the file.

I know the workflow on these collaborative online tools is like that. I also don’t see a reason why an offline tool can’t be like that, but I think turning it on by default would cause more bad surprises for people who don’t expect it to do things unannounced and without asking.

I guess this is something the program could ask on initial startup and make the editor UI very clear on what the state is.

cali_ash,

Learning how to properly save and backup is the more important lesson anyway.

IWantToFuckSpez,

This is why I rather use something like Google docs, even though I’m not a fan of Google, it saves automatically and has a version history I can revert to.

UNWILLING_PARTICIPANT,

I love that there are still kids learning this hard lesson in the year 2024.

summerof69,

You lost it because you didn’t save. You are a parent, it’s time to take responsibility for your mistakes. Don’t blame LO as if you were 13 y/o.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

From my original post:

it was basically my fault

summerof69,

From your original title:

because LibreOffice doesn’t have autosave on automatically

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yes? And it was my fault for not saving because of that.

I’m not sure why you saw me explicitly saying it’s my fault and are trying to tell me that’s not what I said, but it’s not a very good form of gaslighting.

summerof69,

Lol, you wrote in the title that you blame LibreOffice. I wrote that you shouldn’t blame LibreOffice. Now you’re blaming me for gaslighting. I can’t believe I’m talking to an adult.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Insulting me will not change the fact that I admitted it was my fault no matter how hard you try to convince me I didn’t.

summerof69,

Man, I couldn’t care less about you. I read the title where you blamed LO, and I left the comment That’s it. Stop bitching over nothing.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

If you don’t care about me, maybe don’t keep insisting I didn’t say something I very clearly said. I’m not forcing you to continue to insist it.

summerof69,

🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

UnaSolaEstrellaLibre,

Bad UX design is pretty ingrained in many FOSS projects unfortunately.

callouscomic,

Never rely on autosaves for anything, ever.

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