The FBI has formed a national database to track and prevent 'swatting'

Advances in technology allow prank callers to mask their voice, phone number or IP address, or make their false 911 calls sound more credible.

Author Patrick Tomlinson and his wife, business owner Niki Robinson, have been "swatted" at their home in Milwaukee more than 40 times, often resulting in police pointing guns at their heads. Their tormentors have also called in false bomb threats to venues using their names in three states. Yet law enforcement hasn’t been able to stop the prank calls.

The couple’s terror comes as these incidents appear to be on the rise in the U.S., at least on college campuses. In less than a single week in April, universities including Clemson, Florida, Boston, Harvard, Cornell, Pittsburgh, Rutgers and Oklahoma, as well as Middlebury College, were targeted by swatters.

To combat the growing problem, the FBI has begun taking formal measures to get a comprehensive picture of the problem on a national level.

FfaerieOxide,
FfaerieOxide avatar

Why not just disband the murder squads (why are there murder squads??) rather than increase surveillance of the populace?

baascus,

Swatting is a huge problem and needs addressing, no argument there. But it's not about disbanding SWAT teams. These units exist for high-risk situations like hostage crises and active shooters - genuine threats.

The focus should be on improving how these incidents are handled and preventing false calls in the first place. We need better training for 911 operators to spot potential swatting calls and more targeted legislation to crack down on these dangerous pranks. Tech companies could also step up their game in addressing online harassment that often leads to swatting.

It's about creating a system that can respond to real threats while safeguarding innocent people from becoming victims of cruel pranks. Not an easy task, but something we should definitely aim for. Let's fight for change where it's needed most.

AshDene,
AshDene avatar

Phrasing it as "spotting potential swatting calls" is approaching it from the wrong direction.

Instead it should be "confirming that there is probable cause before moving in with weapons". A single call should not probable cause make.

FfaerieOxide,
FfaerieOxide avatar

How many hostage situations have been resolved via murder squad and how many innocent people have been murdered by the squad whose job it is to kill people?

If you ran the numbers, I'm certain you would find society safer with no murder squads—with surplus military gear no less—than with them.

To be clear: I advocate not just the disbanding of SWAT teams, but the abolition of all police.

neuropean,

Counterpoint: hostage takes can get a new hostage after killing the first one without if nobody is present to stop them

FfaerieOxide,
FfaerieOxide avatar

Countercounterpoint: Fuck the police.

kestrel7,
kestrel7 avatar

Here's the thing though.

In the USA, police kill way, way, way more people than are ever taken hostage.

Police brutality is a much larger problem than hostage-taking and given that context, using the police as a tool against hostage taking doesn't make sense.

1/3rd of all homicides in the USA are committed by police. Police also kill far more Americans than active shooters do.

baascus,

SWAT teams were designed to handle high-risk situations, not just hostage scenarios. They assist in various law enforcement operations, protect high-profile individuals, respond to civil disturbances, and serve high-risk warrants. These roles are crucial and can't be ignored​​.

The unfortunate cases where innocent people are harmed are heartbreaking, yet they don't represent the majority of SWAT deployments. Most SWAT teams manage high-risk situations without resorting to lethal force​​.

Rather than complete abolition, we need to focus on better training, stricter oversight, and stronger accountability. The militarization of police, including surplus military gear, is a concern and should be addressed separately.

As for 'swatting', it's a serious misuse of the system by individuals making false reports. This issue requires improved training for 911 operators and stricter punishments for those who make false reports.

While your concerns about SWAT teams are valid, I believe that reform, rather than total abolition, might be a more effective solution to ensure safety and justice.

FfaerieOxide,
FfaerieOxide avatar

respond to civil disturbances

Does this include people protesting the police murdering them?

serve high-risk warrants

For what crimes?

These roles are crucial and can't be ignored​​.

Nothing in that link seemed to back up the claim those roles are crucial, but I did see a giant list of 27 weapons they don't need.

I believe that reform, rather than total abolition, might be a more effective solution to ensure safety and justice.

I believe you are incorrect. I maintain the existence of police is itself an injustice which serves to keep housing prices high by evicting squatters out of unused housing, food unaffordable by arresting people who claim it unused out dumpsters, and punish people who will not work for capitalist masters by harassing unhoused people for existing on the street.

I invite you to consider why you consider violent enforcement necessary, what is being enforced with that violence, and against who the violence is used.

What "crimes" do you suppose cannot be dealt with by removing the social conditions which engender them, and (if there are any) how are murdersquads a superior solution?

baascus,

"Does this include people protesting the police murdering them?"

SWAT teams are typically not the first responders for protests. Their role in civil disturbances generally involves extreme situations like riots or instances where there are direct, credible threats to life. Still, I agree it's vital to ensure that law enforcement respects people's right to protest.

"For what crimes?"

High-risk warrants often involve dangerous crimes or situations like armed suspects, drug trafficking, or violent crime suspects where there's a high probability of violence. But the system is imperfect, and mistakes can and do happen, sometimes with tragic consequences.

"Nothing in that link seemed to back up the claim those roles are crucial..."

IACP conducted two studies—one on police use of force and another on SWAT activities—to provide accurate data and insights on these aspects of law enforcement, aiming to inform the field, public, and media about the true nature of these practices.

"What “crimes” do you suppose cannot be dealt with by removing the social conditions which engender them..."

I totally agree we should strive to address social conditions that lead to crime. But we do not live in an ideal society; there will still be instances of violence, harm, or crisis where a specialized response is necessary, whether we call it "police" or not.

I can tell we have some starkly different views on governance, and that's okay. Not trying to spar here endlessly. Just remember, a world with zero law enforcement might not be as idyllic as it sounds. It's clear you envision a utopia and your perspective is valid. However, it's crucial not to let the perfect become the enemy of the good. Improving our systems should be our focus, even if they can't instantly reach perfection. Keep pushing for a better world, but let's also strive for achievable progress.

kestrel7,
kestrel7 avatar

Police kill more Americans than active shooters do and should be disestablished for that reason alone. 1/3rd of all homicides are by police. Homicide by police is the largest single category of homicide. Yet, police have only 2% of all the firearms in this country. To me, those statistics are staggering. We have actually, by several objective metrics, reached the point where police commit more crimes than the "criminals" do. American society is just experiencing whiplash catching up to the numbers because many of us don't want them to be true. Which is understandable, we have put a huge amount of collective trust in these institutions and it sucks to be betrayed.

Defunding the police isn't about idyllic utopias, it's about stopping the ongoing racialized mass-murder that doesn't actually protect anyone's community. Where I live, the police are a bigger social problem than any gang or mafia.

Defund, disarm, disband.

FfaerieOxide,
FfaerieOxide avatar

High-risk warrants often involve dangerous crimes or situations like armed suspects, drug trafficking, or violent crime suspects where there's a high probability of violence. But the system is imperfect, and mistakes can and do happen, sometimes with tragic consequences.

This is begging the question of these "suspects" needing arrest at all. A person being armed—by itself—is not a crime. Using, possessing, selling, and manufacturing drugs should not be. How much of this "high probability of violence" directly stems from people with guns coming to kidnap them? (Yeah, I'm a prison abolitionist, too.)

IACP conducted two studies—one on police use of force and another on SWAT activities—to provide accurate data and insights on these aspects of law enforcement, aiming to inform the field, public, and media about the true nature of these practices.

I see nothing in the quote which addresses their role in society being crucial.

I can tell we have some starkly different views on governance

Yes, and I am willing to admit in addition to some of my thoughts needing polish, I hold certain views (I have not yet shared with you) which are flagrantly contradictory. I still am confident the end goal of the pursuit of justice will lead to a world that does not have slave patrols. I view a desire to preserve such a system of domination to be a moral failing.

threephotonsinacoat,

VOIP has more or less reduced phones to the status of email and other internet services. It's amazing that there weren't more trust provisions put in place for verifying phone numbers prior to the shift away from the old phone lines. The militarization of police is bad too, but it's amazing that there was a technology change that removed a point of trust from something as important as the phone system and 911 calls. It's a truly bizarre situation we find ourselves in, and frankly I'd rather we went back to the pre-VOIP days at this point.

sendingmath,
sendingmath avatar

judging by the lacklustre assistance Tomlinson has been getting (as per the article) it seems law enforcement doesn't care that their resources are being horribly put to waste by these incidents? You'd think it would be dealt with the utmost urgency.

crashspeeder,

That assumption is predicated on law enforcement being willing to publish statistics on their actions. You can’t have this work without that. Considering how often SWAT teams are unnecessarily used and the military tactics they employ, the results will be unflattering to police departments.

Of course they don’t want their time wasted, but they won’t trade transparency and accountability for it.

taanegl,

Also known as the WolfCry DB.

autumn,

Isn’t FBI too high level to prevent swatting? Seems like if the local police are getting sent out, any solution would have to happen at that level instead.

Like if the local PD couldn’t figure it out with 43 reported swattings on the couple mentioned in the story, how is a national database going to help?

Ragnell,
Ragnell avatar

This is what's killing me. How can they NOT be keeping track?

Ech,

The fbi aren't personally stopping every case of swatting. Their instituting federal systems to help local departments. This is a nationwide problem. It's gonna need nationwide support.

Flaky_Fish69,
Flaky_Fish69 avatar

Any one, from any where in the world, can do it.

Between VPNs and VOIP phones, it’d almost impossible to sort out whose legitimate and whose not without showing up.

As a short term fix, people who are frequently swatted, usually coordinate with the local/responding cops so that if there’s a call at their adress, they call first before breaking down doors

parrot-party,
parrot-party avatar

As a shorter term fix, not murdering people based on a simple phone call would also fix the problem.

Limitless_screaming,
Limitless_screaming avatar

That's insane, what's next? Not killing the dogs, not destroying property, and maybe even getting tried for crimes they committed!

kestrel7,
kestrel7 avatar

Yeah this was my thought as well.

The problem here is pigs murdering people without evidence.

I'm not confident the FBI is going to solve that problem.

sadreality,

Being "scared" is all they need to commit murder...

kuontom,
kuontom avatar

Would it?

Flaky_Fish69, (edited )
Flaky_Fish69 avatar

It's not nearly that simple, though.

that a bomber might set off a bomb if cops showed up and asked if everything was okay.
Or that abusive spouse whose menacing their partner with a kitchen knife and tossing around the kids might start getting all stabby.

over twenty-thousand people in the US have died THIS YEAR, so far, from gun violence. there's been over a hundred and fifty mass shootings. Ten million adults in the US and far, far too many children, are victims of domestic violence.
 
 
 
 
You are thinking of this problem from the premise that the call is false. the reality is the cops have no way to know that, and the safest response- for everybody involved- is in fact coming in hard and fast and ending whatever is going on.
Yes a few people have died.
yes, it is an extremely traumatic experience.
YES, cops- generally speaking- really should stop killing people. We can agree on that.
 
 
The alternative to cops not repsonding to reports of bombs, of domestic violence or active shooters.... is letting bombers bomb shit and letting Stabby Mcstabberson continue to beat the living shit out of the rest of the McStabberson Family, and letting assholes run around killing people.
 
 
Look at what happened in Uvalde. 911 call reported an active shooter. cops responded. Active shooter was found in a school. Cops didn't go in... kids died. More kids died than if responding officers had followed decades-old protocol of going and engaging immediately.
Yes, I get the outrage. I may even agree with it. We should not have to live in this shithole of a world. But we do, and it's not as simple as "well, we shouldn't do that."

(sorry for the formatting edits,)

kestrel7,
kestrel7 avatar

When has the SWAT team ever helped anyone?

This is not a rhetorical question. I'm genuinely curious as to how they have helped people because I don't really understand what they do besides steal drugs and resell them. They certainly don't seem to help with active shooters or domestic violence that I've ever heard of. Totally open to being wrong though.

Alto,
Alto avatar

When has the SWAT team ever helped anyone?

Not very often

Flaky_Fish69,
Flaky_Fish69 avatar

probably far more often than you or I hear about. I know in our local city they're hitting warrants up on a weekly basis ("Warrant Wednesdays". They fuck it up it's going to be national news for months. they do their job the way it's supposed to be... nobody even knows they really exist, right? except the bad guys and the courts and other cops.

I don't know how often the whole "barricaded subject with hostages" happens... but I do know about that one time where I had a belligerent guy waving a knife around- they probably saved his life compared to what other cops would have done. (i work in contract security. this was years ago when I was still sitting a post.)
 
 
 
I'm not saying they're perfect... but there's always going to have to be somebody, armed in that way. utopian societies don't come from dystopian societies. Utopian societies frequently become dystopian.

Crayon8027,
Crayon8027 avatar

Sometimes I'll listen in on police radios and you will hear officers sigh like, "Damn, not this shit again" cause they recognize the address they are being sent to for a call and remember the guy from just a few prior meetings.

And now these cops are being sent to the same couple over 40 times and are like, "Oh ummm gee, I wonder who these people could be".

I honestly think the real reason is that most of these cops want these calls to be true, because they get sold on the idea that being a cop is cool and about fighting crime when 90% of the job is super boring.

Flax_vert,

I remember hearing that a canadian twitch streamer kept getting swatted, moved to the UK, then someone tried to do it to her again, instead a single police officer showed up just to make sure she was alright and said it sounded like a prank call

Limitless_screaming,
Limitless_screaming avatar

What training for your job does to a MF.

emptyother,
@emptyother@lemmy.world avatar

It feels wrong to use the word "prank" with this. Isn't there a better word they can use?

Ech,

"Attempted murder" seems appropriate

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