bout fcking time, I have been reporting fake medical channels to them for literally 10 years and as far as I can tell nothing has been done. But the bad news is that these con artist criminals will just move all their quack content to another video site, and there are plenty to chose from.
Well, there are other places to host videos, but there's nowhere to spread misinformation videos quite as efficiently as on YouTube.
It's not enough to simply be able to upload videos, you need a platform that's happy to push your bullshit onto a large audience of vulnerable viewers, desperate enough to keep them consuming content on the platform that they don't give a shit about moral bankruptcy. YouTube has played that role amazingly for at least a decade now, and it's not going to be easy to replace if they should suddenly start giving a fuck.
The even worse news is that it probably has to do with tech giants taking over healthcare and they’re probably clearing up conflicts of interest so they can formally offer health advice.
Stupid isn't the same as harmful though. They didn't ban anti-vax because it was stupid, they banned it because they were putting people at risk. This is more of the same. I don't get what flatearthers put at risk other than our eyes after rolling them too hard.
They’re gateways for other more dangerous conspiracy theories and the alt right. Folding Ideas has an excellent vid about it but I don’t have the time to link it now.
And if we were to censor flat earthers, do you think you'll get less alt rights from the flat earthers or more?
Hint: by blocking their speech, you end up giving them first-hand evidence on a key alt-right talking point; that the mainstream censors ideas simply because it doesn't like them. "It was never about safety, like they said when they went after COVID deniers and anti vaxxers. They went after flat earthers who, even by their standards, aren't posing any harm."
Less, because deplatforming works. Disrupting the recruiting pipeline is a great way of reducing the impact of harmful extremist ideologies.
And flat earth is very much part of the alt-right pipeline. It sets the foundation for distrusting experts, science, and straight up ignoring reality, to then substitute with their own.
Less, because deplatforming works. Disrupting the recruiting pipeline is a great way of reducing the impact of harmful extremist ideologies.
Actually it would blow up in your face. Because this move would be completely unprecedented, given how flat earthers are not harmful in and of themselves, such a move would get widespread attention and would be reported on widely.
And flat earth is very much part of the alt-right pipeline. It sets the foundation for distrusting experts, science, and straight up ignoring reality, to then substitute with their own.
The flat earth society doesn't set up shit. If you're joining the flat earth society, the distrust of science and experts is already there.
But ok, let's follow your logic, and while we're at it, let's ban churches and any talk of Christianity. After all, the right wing also uses Christianity as a recruitment tool, and Christianity has a long and infamous history of science denial.
Hey, why stop there? Let's also ban mosques and Islam! After all, mosques were used by Muslim extremists to recruit people into terrorist organisations. Truly nothing can go wrong!
This crisis of how many people fall for bullshit and stupid shit is unprecedented, and is about to break apart the United States. If it hasn’t already done so.
Media has a massive hand to play in this.
It will not get better unless something is done about it.
…or do you want to see where this road truly leads? Because we are about to find out.
The problem isn't people falling for stupid shit. The problem is that people are afraid to be wrong. Sounds counter intuitive, but let me explain.
People attach too much ego onto being correct, such that when someone is wrong, it is seen as a weakness. Thus, once they have their theory, they're afraid to let go of it no matter how wrong they're proven, thus they will latch onto any other explanation, no matter how out there. You might have seen it yourself when people double down.
But once someone can recognise they are wrong, then they can course-correct.
Being wrong is an important part of the process to being right. And part of that is stating your theory.
It is not facts that we are truly battling here but egos. You will not see progress by shutting down conversation and telling them they're wrong. The fix needs a more emotionally intelligent approach.
Right, but when you do this to a topic that isn't causing harm, you risk incurring a Streisand Effect and you don't have the moral standing that you do with things like anti-vax or COVID deniers. So masses of people can end up sharing flat earth material just to spite you and your overzealous moderation.
You can try point to the alt-right recruitments all you like, but people will point you straight back at your conservatism or Christianity topics.
People are allowed to be wrong or even be idiots. When they start causing actual harm is where the line should be drawn.
Treating all misguided thoughts the same is stupidity in itself. Heavy handedness does not convince people of their errors, it leads them to double down.
Not sure I follow… Is the implication that religion is magical thinking, and therefore harmful to society? Because if so, I agree.
If you really are interested in this concept, I highly recommend reading “The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark” by Carl Sagan. In fact, it should be required reading for every adult human.
He explains why this stuff is harmful way better than I ever could.
There are always elements of 'magical thinking' in our lives. There is a lot that cannot be explained by the logical, such as human behaviour. And sometimes we have these fantasies in our head, even though they are impossible or...out there.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that on some level, 'magical thinking' is innate to all of us and isn't something that should be discouraged. Obviously it shouldn't override hard facts but if they do and no one stands to be harmed...just let people be wrong and start on the process of learning.
Again, if you actually care to learn more about this position, I highly recommend reading A Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan. Like I said, he does a much better job explaining what I’m attempting to say.
I’m not talking about people just “being wrong,” and then learning. That isn’t what’s happening.
And no, magical thinking is not part of everyone’s life, and it absolutely should be discouraged.
How are we defining magical thinking here? Are we talking about anything illogical or specifically the unironic my-Hogwarts-letter-got-lost-in-the-post types?
I'll definitely give that book a read, thanks for the recommendation.
Magical thinking, or superstitious thinking,[1] is the belief that unrelated events are causally connected despite the absence of any plausible causal link between them, particularly as a result of supernatural effects.
Just because a lot of people do something, that doesn’t make it safe. Drinking alcohol is harmful, but accepted by a lot of people.
The argument against all magical thinking is a bit of a slippery slope argument, so it’s not perfect. That being said, do you really think most people actually believe knocking on wood will prevent something bad from happening? If someone truly believes that their superstitious rituals have an effect on objective reality, then yes, that is very harmful. If someone bases their beliefs on something other than evidence, that person is not only unequipped to make good decisions, but also an easy mark that can be taken advantage of.
Dude, we make decisions based on things like gut feelings and other things that aren't solid evidence all the time. We often aren't even aware of doing so.
We aren't Spock. We aren't particularly data-driven beings. We make decisions such as who to date on things like the way they look, they way they talk. We pick our food based on what tastes good over what would be the most beneficial nutritionally. We get excited over made up things that happen on a screen.
I'm sorry, but if you want to ban flat-earthers because their illogicality makes them an easy target for right wing extremists, there's a metric fuck ton more people you'd have to ban alongside them for the same reasons. By that point you probably don't have a social network anymore.
Sorry, that is not what I meant to convey. There are many reasons for doing things outside of pure logic and pure superstition. It’s not a dichotomy.
When I drink poison, beer for example, that’s not a logical choice, but it’s also not based on magical thinking. Pleasurable sensations and personal preferences are real things that exist. Doing something because it makes you happy is very different from doing something because your priest or guru told you to do it.
I do get what you are saying, and yes blind obedience to authorities in various circles isn't healthy. But how does one moderate on such principles while maintaing free and open discussion?
How does one moderate on such principles while maintaing free and open discussion?
That’s a really, really good question. Any definite rules are tricky because there are always edge cases in human communication. Also, it shouldn’t be illegal to be wrong or stupid, so what can we do?
I think the only thing close to a real solution is good public education. There will always be stupid and dangerous ideas floating around. The best thing we can do is probably help people understand that evidence-based-policy works and magic doesn’t. (but I still think there should be moderation online to prevent blatant hate and violence.)
The next one they really need to get after is "DIY" videos that tell you to do absolutely insane and dangerous things.
There are so many weird wiring "hack" videos telling you to do all kinds of splicing madness for home wiring, or telling you how to reuse microwave transformers without giving any adequate warning about how deadly it is, or that weird lady who mixes all the household cleaners in her toilet. Or even just the plumbing videos telling you to heat up and force PVC pipes over cast iron/brass if you don't have the proper fitting -- motherfucker what?!
Not to even mention how vital a piece of infrastructure YouTube is to the world of general right wing antifeminist/antitrans bigotry.
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