2 Michigan fake electors ask judge to drop charges, citing state AG’s claim they’re ‘brainwashed’

Two fake GOP electors in Michigan asked a judge this week to dismiss their charges, arguing that state Attorney General Dana Nessel conceded that they didn’t have criminal intent when she said they were “brainwashed” after the 2020 election.

Attorneys for fake electors Mari-Ann Henry and Clifford Frost separately filed motions to drop the case, citing the comments Nessel made last week to a liberal advocacy group. CNN obtained a recording of her appearance, where she said the GOP electors were “brainwashed” and “genuinely believe” former President Donald Trump won in 2020.

“Convictions would require proof that (Henry) intended by her actions to defraud,” Henry’s attorney wrote, adding that Nessel’s prosecutors “now claim that (Henry) believed Donald Trump won the election. If she had that belief, (Henry’s) alleged actions could not have been performed with the intent to cheat or deceive anyone.”

roguetrick,

They still had the mens rea to defraud the state as false electors even if they were delusional enough to believe the election was fraudulent. They didn't believe they were the actual electors at any point.

charonn0,
@charonn0@startrek.website avatar

It doesn’t matter whether they believed the election was stolen. It’s not illegal to believe that, and that’s not what they’re accused of.

What actually matters is that they knew they were not the duly-appointed electors for their state. That’s what makes it fraud. That’s why they’re criminals. And that’s why they should spend a few decades confined to a small room where they can think about what they’ve done.

crypticthree,

If I genuinely believe that Jodie Foster wants me to kill someone, does that make murder legal?

billwashere,

I get this reference. Because I’m old.

quindraco,

Not relevant. The relevant version of this would be, if you genuinely believe Jodie Foster to be immortal, can you be charged with attempted murder for shooting at her?

themeatbridge,

Yes.

Jaysyn,
Jaysyn avatar

Maybe not charged, but you're put into custody for a long time either way.

radix,
@radix@lemmy.world avatar

It is relevant, you just missed the reference: en.wikipedia.org/…/Attempted_assassination_of_Ron…

homesweethomeMrL,

Isn’t it wild how far off Reagan’s republicans are from trump’s? Yesterday there was a post about Reagan vetoing the anti-apartheid bill over concerns with communist language.

I think if Ronnie Raygun came back to life and saw a russian-backed stooge leading a horde of propagandized fascists to dismantle democracy, he’d sh*t himself twice and die again. Which, I would support.

mindbleach,

They haven’t moved an inch from that fucker’s “eleventh commandment” - thou shalt not speak ill of another Republican.

Their stated ideals are ad-hoc justifications. All that has ever mattered is ingroup loyalty.

bradorsomething,

Nice callback!

phoenixz,

i deserve leniency, I committed the criminal act because I’m an idiot

Sure sure, let’s go with that.

AnUnusualRelic,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

"Objection your honor, I’m an imbecile! "

NatakuNox,
@NatakuNox@lemmy.world avatar

Won’t drop the charges but how about you spend the next ten years in padded room wearing a nice warm jacket.

dynamojoe,

At least they admit it’s a cult.

antizero99, (edited )

They also had to define what woke was in court. Nothing has changed. Nothing will change. They would happily join a cult and kill their first born if it meant owning the libs. It’s really sad as well as a sign of the mental health and education issues in this country.

Cruxifux,

If this works it’ll set a very disturbing precedence for right wing extremist actions in the US.

Fredselfish,
@Fredselfish@lemmy.world avatar

If they get their case dismissed on these grounds we will see Trump followers straight up commit acts of treason and may even go as far as overthrowing some state governments.

They always point and say "hey I was brainwashed " and point to this trail. Hope judge isn’t that stupid.

orclev,

Hmm, brainwashed by Facebook posts. Clearly they’re not competent functional adults, so the solution is simple, declare them wards of the state and assign them a guardian who has to supervise them and do things like set a curfew they need to be home by. If you admit in court that you’re not a functional adult, you don’t get to be treated like a functional adult.

Fredselfish,
@Fredselfish@lemmy.world avatar

I like it also takes away your right to vote and to own a firearm.

orclev,

Don’t forget driver’s license as well. Couldn’t trust someone like that to operate such a dangerous piece of equipment.

Case,

If only there were a place where we could house dangerous, mentally unstable people from the populous.

Of course, for me to have any thought on imprisoning people, I must first recognize the multitude of judicial and correctional atrocities that happen seemingly daily all over the country.

diocan,

Literally hitler would fucking come back from the dead

givesomefucks,

It won’t, the lawyers always try stupid shit. Especially in pretrial

Like Trump’s lawyers just said that square footage was subjective so it can’t be a crime to have wildly varying numbers that always worked in the defendant’s favor.

They put that in writing, but when oral arguments came, they dropped it because they knew it wouldn’t actually work. It’s a stall tactic to make prosecutors waste time they could be spending on the case. Throw out a dozen ridiculous defenses, that way prosecutors have to have a plan for whatever they actually go with

KoboldCoterie,
@KoboldCoterie@pawb.social avatar

Like Trump’s lawyers just said that square footage was subjective so it can’t be a crime to have wildly varying numbers that always worked in the defendant’s favor.

“You see, Your Honor, it was very cold the morning they were taking the measurements, and…”

themeatbridge,

I was in the pool!

Infynis,
@Infynis@midwest.social avatar

Your Honor, do judges know about…shrinkage?

PsychedSy,

Louis Rossmann did a series of videos dealing with NY real estate agents. It appears to be completely normal to lie about the size of a space there.

geekworking,

Most drivers go over the speed limit. That doesn’t make speeding legal.

homesweethomeMrL,

Agree. However, it’s not really known by most people that that is the defense’s job. “Justice” is entirely the responsibility of the prosecutor. They have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, they have to do it correctly, and if they find anything that undermines their own case they have to present it. The defense does not, that’s the way our system is set up.

Television and other media makes it look like the defense is also responsible for finding the truth and making everything just. That’s incorrect. Defense’s role is to keep the overwhelming power of the state, and all the tools at its command, including corrupt police, etc., at bay.

So is this a stupid argument? Oh hell yeah. But when you can’t pound the facts, pound the table.

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