Also Epstein 100% killed himself, and unsealing this info won’t tell you anything meaningful, because predators who hide among the rich don’t fucking tell every person they meet that they’re a predator.
Conspiracy theories are never a good look on anyone.
There are people who collect and document the information from the Epsteins of the world for blackmail. It was how Hoover built the FBI. I am not claiming that Epstein was murdered, but anyone who tries to cash in on the information that Epstein had, would have information that destroys lives. Desperate people do act desperately. I would guess that little ‘conspiracies’ abound, as people try to not be outed; using non-disclosure agreements, for example.
It doesn’t matter if you’re being truthful. If you’re being a smug dickhead and talking down to people to feed your sense of superiority, I will downvote.
There are enough of those in the fediverse as it is, we don’t need any more incentives.
He totally committed suicide by shooting himself in the head. Twice.
This, but unironically. That’s why his wife corroborates it.
Here’s a clue to avoiding conspiracy theories: if it is something you really want to be true because it feels right, it probably isn’t true and is instead spread around by other people with that same feeling.
Most conspiracy theories are bullshit, no doubt. But not all of them are, and it’s pretty hard to judge which might be true by the claims alone, because by nature they are pretty fantastical.
In 1974 before the Church Committee revealed it, you’d have dismissed anyone telling you about MKUltra and I wouldn’t blame you.
But it really did happen.
Did Epstein kill himself? Probably? But the circumstances are definitely eyebrow raising…
But the circumstances are definitely eyebrow raising…
This is pretty much how all conspiracy theories thrive: take something suspicious, put a story into the holes in between the facts we know that confirms what we want to believe is true, and then ignore or ridiculously explain away any evidence that contradicts the hypothesis.
Epstein 0% killed himself. See? I can assert things with no evidence as well. The whole thing reeks from start to finish and I have no idea how anyone can be completely confident in what happened either way.
I agree with you on the papers (been following that story since it broke), and I’ll agree that I probably would’ve offed myself in his position as well, but there were some pretty unprobable shit happening around his death unless I’ve been misled hard. I mean the guy was on suicide watch, wasn’t he? It’s at the very least suspect as hell that it happened like it did.
Fair enough, I didn’t know he was taken off suicide watch. Makes one wonder why, though. It’s not like his circumstances changed.
But we’ll likely never know anyway, so I don’t quite understand why you’re getting so much flack for shit that is ultimately academic at this point. Don’t get me wrong, as I think his victims deserve to know as much as possible, but at this point we’re getting into Jimmy Hoffa territory with this shit.
The video being lost around the original attempt is rather suspect, but him finding something to hang himself with again… He should have been in a paper gown in a padded room. We have tons and tons of suicidal people in asylums and jail that are not given an opportunity to hang themselves.
Someone as high profile as him and with a cell mate?
I’m not saying he 100% didn’t kill himself, but It sure as hell looks like somebody went through a lot of trouble to provide him opportunity.
The hidden people on the list that makes this list so inconsequential are the same exact people with the type of reach it would need to make sure he didn’t start naming names.
Yeah, no need to answer anything I point out just put your hands over your ears and tell me I’m QANON and full of shit that’ll really make your point and help your position here.
Come to think of it maybe there’s a reason you’re getting all the down votes…
Hopping into this conversation to say: that person is right; I’m not downvoting you because “rich people bad”. I’m downvoting you because you aren’t engaging in this discussion to share ideas and understand the other person. Your approach in this discussion is very much one of shutting down thinking that opposes yours. That doesn’t get a dialog going; it ends it. You can do with that as you like, but I thought I’d speak up for myself so you don’t mischaracterize my downvote.
And yet your take here has nothing to do with the reality of Epstein’s crimes nor his suicide. It has nothing to do with the actual suicides passed off as conspiracies.
“Conspiracy theories” have ironically enough become weaponized as a thought terminating cliche. Am I supposed to not wonder what about his guards and what they were doing, or the camera feeds, or the people getting paid six figures to handle his case, or the dozens of other loose ends?
There are enormous efforts being taken to gaslight people out of their curiosity about this case.
I think it’s because he represents how rich powerful people live under a different set of rules and are seemingly able to get away with almost anything. Compound that with the right wing obsession with human trafficking that usually leans into conspiracy theories that both exaggerate the real issue and somehow only blames “leftist elites”. They hope the Epstein release will finally prove their wacky theorys correct.
The guy kept a list of billionaires he was serving minor sex-traffic victims too.
It’d be great if that list were to become public so there could maybe be some justice for the victims and some punishment to deter tomorrow’s billionaire’s from following suit.
It be great it despite the blatant cover-up of Epstein’s murder the list still became public.
It’d be great if those who felt they were above the law and commited heineous crimes found they weren’t above the law.
He was also almost certainly an Israeli intelligence asset. I can’t prove it, but there’s a ton of evidence for anyone who wants to look into it. I’m surprised that this is not more widely known.
January 1 - This is just the emotionally charged distraction. Keep watchful for the event that needs to go under the radar. A change in laws or policy, a new war, or anything that is meant to erode people’s privacy, security or freedom. The US has a history of implementing undesirable changes during holiday periods when there’s little opposition. Possibly something like this;
What a dumb move. All the names? The judge must know that people will not be smart enough to realize being on the list doesn’t mean you’re guilty of any crime. And it’s going to include victims? And people who might have just been included in an email?
I’m all for going after any criminals, but the problem with the outcome of this is that people are stupid and will think that inclusion on the list is the same as guilt. If we are also talking about people who fought successfully to have their names protected, it’s the rich people with means who won’t end up being made public.
If people were generally rational, this would be a good thing. But we’re not, and it seems that all sense is thrown out the window when it comes to Epstein.
I use to say “all extremes call for their opposite”. Since almost no information ever transpires about this whole scandal, the opposite is to release all the names to the public. It was to be expected. If we were trusting the justice system, this would seem inappropriate. But we have what we have, and making the whole list public is the only guarantee we have that not one of the “bad” guy can escape public’s attention. That of course, is valid only if the list is comprehensive and some names have not already been taken out.
It is indeed unfortunate that a lot of people who didn’t deserve and didn’t want any bad attention will get some.
I’m not saying I agree with the move. I’m saying it was to be expected.
making the whole list public is the only guarantee we have that not one of the “bad” guy can escape public’s attention.
Problem is that we don’t know if this is the case. It was noted in the article that some people were able to get their names retracted already and that she is leaving time for other people to plead their case. We all know, and this part of the reason for lack of trust in the legal system, that it favors the rich…so for all I know it’s rich likely guilty people who were able to pay for a lawyer to argue to get themselves removed, while some poor regular joe got caught up in an email for God knows what innocent reason, who is going to get harassed by the mindless mob.
Expected? Maybe. A bad move, almost certainly. People want blood when it comes to Epstein and when that happens rationality takes a back seat.
Saying “people are stupid so we shouldn’t have information” is so anti-humanist. Mob mentality. We have courts, why does public opinion matter? Its actually up to these important people to protect their image if its worth so much - but they don’t, they’re living their lives. Often with even less moral consideration than a regular guy.
And your call to wealth being a shield from danger? Bill gates seems to have lost his marriage over his involvement with Epstein. And that Prince guy in Britain, the rest of the royal family talks shit about him.
Well those crimes were ages ago. Who would prosecute them? Yeah, it won’t even go to trial. If they are guilty, which… Like you said, gonna be tough to prove. Rich people absolutely do better at every step of our legal system.
I’m talking about having their names released to the public, which people are going to basically equate to being a child molester, not being convicted of any crimes.
I think theres a good chance people will be more understanding about it. On Epstein’s original flight list, I xan only remember the names of people who visited a LOT. And even then, some of the people who only visited a few times turned out to be child molesters. So we can’t know for sure.
Somehow, as of lately, when people start to talk about rationality it is mostly about some bizarre stuff like bombing datacenters or living in a country that leads an aggressive war because you earn more.
Maybe it’s just a survivor bias and everyone is about bizarre stuff in these times, though
This isn’t the “flew on his jet a few times” sort of associates, they were named in Giuffre’s court case.
The documents are part of a settled civil lawsuit alleging Epstein’s one-time paramour Ghislaine Maxwell facilitated the sexual abuse of Virginia Giuffre. Terms of the 2017 settlement were not disclosed.
You read part of the article, found something you think confirms your point (it does not) and then just stopped reading and thinking. Your issue is that you’re trying to be right, rather than trying to figure out what is right.
Also from the article:
Some of the names may simply have been included in depositions, email or legal documents.
And very explicitly
including Epstein’s victims, co-conspirators and innocent associates.
And also
The documents may not make clear why a certain individual became associated with Giuffre’s lawsuit,
As I said, people aren’t rational especially when it comes to Epstein. I appreciate you coming to me and demonstrating this for everyone.
I did read the article, I just I didn’t realise there was any article after all the jump, sorry. Hate it when sites do that.
But I still don’t buy that argument:
Judge Loretta Preska set the release for Jan. 1, giving anyone who objects to their documents becoming public time to object. Her ruling, though, said that since some of the individuals have given media interviews their names should not stay private.
Anyone who was named in those documents knows that they were named in those documents. It is unlikely to include as many innocents as you, or rather that journalist, seem to expect.
So, it’s the articles fault you didn’t read it because of something that happens extremely regularly in articles on the Internet. I’m wrong because of words you put in my mouth (I made no claims as to how many innocents are on the list). And you’re still right based on blind speculation.
It’s like you’re desperate to demonstrate my point for me.
You people? The fuck do you mean you people? Were you born out the arsehole of Christ himself? Get the fuck outta here with your holier than thou self righteousness. This is a free and open public forum. Don’t like it? Fuck off elsewhere. Poop
You don’t have a “case,” you have an opinion that amounts to no-true-Scotsman. If any of these posts are “Reddit brained,” but yours is somehow not, then “Reddit brained” is an empty concept you fill with whatever you don’t like. Your post, like the ones you’re criticizing, is short, low-effort, unfriendly, critical, and contributes nothing to the discussion. You’re just expressing the opinion that you’re unhappy - and, as far as I can tell, no one asked. If you’re allowed to post your irrelevant, negative opinion, then why aren’t they?
If you don’t like other people, with different motives, interests, and moods, joining your social media platforms, I have bad news.
Although, this is the fediverse - you could make your own server and just defederate every time you’re about to make a post like you did here. The rest of us would be grateful to see less toxicity around here.
Don’t be obtuse, you know exactly what they meant: low effort “quippy,” dare I say it: Whedon-esque comments, that you can predict before even opening the comments.
But I really really agree with it. I’d like to see the culture around here step up a little bit. Circlejerks and shitposting communities are one thing, but not everything has to be a joke. And certainly not the same joke, over and over again and again.
I guess I just find it sad that low effort infinitely recycled jokes are what make it to the top, when we can actually have a decent discussion about something.
I get what you’re saying, and if it’s a matter of the low effort snarky/funny stuff rising to the top because of upvotes, that’s probably a systemic problem. Short quick posts will have more people read them to completion, so that probably makes upvotes more likely.
However, I bet thoughtful comments also get rewarded with further discussion in replies.
The reason they make it to the top is precisely because they are low-effort and infinitely recycled. Many different users think of them as a response, then see the comment and upvote it because “same”. It’s not that the joke is good or not, it’s that I thought of it and it was already there, so have an upvote.
If you want a decent discussion about something, maybe replying to a low-effort joke response isn’t the way to go about it. The great thing about the Fediverse is that you yourself choose what to interact with and what to ignore. If you are interacting with something you’d rather ignore, maybe that’s something to ponder on a personal level.
My problem is that it just begets more low effort posts; if people see that by making these low level comments, they are going to be rewarded with attention, then it just encourages more of that.
Additionally, on top of that, if people see that putting effort into posting thoughtful responses doesn’t get the same reward, they are less likely to do so.
Ive seen it happen numerous times on reddit where small niche subs were originally very good with mostly high quality conversations and discussions, but eventually those original people got crowded out by the influx of low level posts, and many of the people simple left (it was kind of like how the universe or TrueReddit subs came about).
I get there isn’t much to be done about it, or at least I can’t think of it, but I still think it’s important to bemoan something that is actually bad for high quality discussions.
something that is actually bad for high quality discussions
This is purely a matter of opinion, proven by the fact that, not only do I have no issue with a joke comment thrown around in serious posts, I prefer the minor chuckle as a break from the soul-crushing reality that is everyday news.
I’ll, once gain, point to the fact that you are the one choosing to engage these comments. It takes more effort to downvote, and immensely more effort to type out a reply, than it does to just scroll on by. When I walk into my local 7-11 to get down on a Coke-Banana Slurpee and some Takis, I don’t start bitching and moaning about the fake penis enlargement pills and trucker speed I see along the way. I head to what I’m interested in, pay the man, and make like a baby.
The world is full of shit I don’t want to deal with and would rather not see, but I don’t control the rest of the world. Learn how to make peace with that and you’ll be a lot happier.
I’ll, once gain, point to the fact that you are the one choosing to engage these comments.
Already addressed, I think it brings down the level of discussion overall, which you just handwaved away as opinion. But if it’s my opinion, then shouldn’t I speak up? And if you disagree with the reason I’m posting, shouldn’t you take your own advice and simply move on rather than trying to correct me?
But if it’s my opinion, then shouldn’t I speak up?
Because opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one, and they all stink. Throwing your opinion out there when no one asked for it is like breaking wind because you appreciate your own brand. And I will admit, guilty as charged.
I might join you. I know some k8s and shit, if you need a hand admin-ing. Actually since my instance is likely federating with threads, I was looking at pulling my account and donation eventually anyway.
Funny how we’ve never seen any pictures of Biden with Epstein, but we have dozens of Trump with Epstein and we know they were friends for over a decade, and you still think they are “both bad people”
Anyone who did not successfully fight to keep their name out of the civil case could see their name become public – including Epstein’s victims, co-conspirators and innocent associates.
Well, this tells us that we probably won’t see any notable people in the release then…
Noam Chomsky once said that his dealings and business with Epstein were none of our business and we should fuck off. I hope we get to find out more about his and other rich people’s dealings with Epstein
“What was known about Jeffrey Epstein was that he had been convicted of a crime and had served his sentence,” Chomsky told the Journal about his meetings. "According to U.S. laws and norms, that yields a clean slate.
That’s not a bad argument. He said the discussed politics and philosophy. Nothing suggests that there was any minors involved.
I don’t see why he wouldn’t want that to be public knowledge. What Epstein did was so awful you really would want to clear your name if you had any connection to the man.
I agree with you, but also I have seen many times how trigger-happy internet crowd may be. Maybe he thinks that nobody will read an explanation past the first word. Or maybe he’s guilty of abuses, we’ll hopefully see
It is freaken Chomsky. Have you heard his name one time? Congratulations, you now have an opinion about him. And said opinion is very very extreme.
The man is either an intellectual titan in a wide variety of fields and the one consistent voice of morality for +60 years or batshit insane impractical plagiarism commiting fraud who thinks the best thing western civilization can do is suicide while leaving an apology note. Nothing in between.
I don’t see why he wouldn’t want that to be public knowledge. What Epstein did was so awful you really would want to clear your name if you had any connection to the man.
Richard Stallman got cancelled for trying to clear Marvin Minsky’s name. Not only had Minsky himself not actually done anything wrong, but Stallman wasn’t even connected to Epstein except in a “six degrees of Kevin Bacon” sort of way. Yet he got kicked off the Free Software Foundation board for it anyway (at least until ‘truth got its boots on’ and folks came to their senses and reinstated him).
Richard Stallman got “cancelled” because he was sexually harassing everybody with boobs and walking on two legs and had been for decades according to people who dealt with him at work and conferences. Oh I am sorry were you hoping I didn’t know about that?
They’ll unseal them but all envelopes contain only an “I Owe You” from Trump, and under his signature he wrote in small font “I declassified them after I took them home”
How is pointing out the fact that members of both political parties were named as acquaintances of a known pedophile “trying to feel like a victim”? Seeing the Trump comments under every single Epstein post is super hilarious and everything, but I don’t see very many posts about Hillary or Bill. Just trying to make sure they’re all accounted for, not just the guys we already don’t like.
Gimme a break, Hillary just came out publicly as a “key player” in the Biden campaign. Mentioning Dems affiliation with pedophiles is absolutely relevant.
No. You pointed out Bill and so someone responded to kill them all. And you had issue with that. Why? You tried to make it all about Trump to play the victim. Otherwise why would you have a problem will killing bill too.
You’re mixing up my comments and other people’s comments lol I never responded in any way to the person saying “guiottine them all”. Get your facts straight before you get all bent out of shape next time, bud.
Edit: just because the comment is below another doesn’t mean it’s a response, you have to follow the drop down lines fyi
Because I see comments about Trump under every Epstein, and there were way more politicians than Trump included in that passenger manifest. Is it offensive to you that I pointed that out or something?
The thing is he’s running for president and likes to accuse people of things. It makes sense people are going to look towards him first when shit starts flying around. Dudes into shady stuff, spent decades ripping people off or “getting a good deal” depending on your disposition.
Regardless, let them all burn, let’s find someone competent in the ashes. If someone is corrupt it’s in all our best interests to dump them, regardless of political affiliation, and find someone who believes in more than themselves.
Fair enough, I just wanna make sure they are all held accountable, not just the guys we already dislike. I’m all for Trump facing a firing squad, I just sort of feel like we’ve gotten to a place where those kind of people don’t really feel the same squeeze of justice that us 99%ers do.
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