What's with all the NordVPN hate?

I see people say that NordVPN is a bad choice all the time, but I've never seen any credible evidence that they're not trustworthy. Can anyone provide any sources with valid reasons to avoid their service? I only know that they had some servers hacked in 2018, but it seems as though they took that very seriously and upgraded their hardware and encryption accordingly. I'm just trying to decide if I want to start looking at alternatives, but honestly I'm pretty satisfied with my experience so far.

Linker95,

Wasn’t NordVPN that provider that said they were no log and then a hack happened and exposed that they did, in fact, retain logs of user activity? Am I mixing them up with someone else?

DarkWasp,

According to them it was one specific server somewhere and they no longer use that company. The CEO when it happened still claimed they didn’t have logs according to this https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/after-twitter-allegations-nord-vpn-discloses-breach-1.1334946

https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/after-the-breach-nord-is-asking-users-to-trust-it-again/

Linker95,

Not really an excuse, it’s them not doing due diligence… I’m more surprised that I correctly attributed this remote memory to the correct scummy VPN provider lol

Cinner,

That's happened with almost every VPN provider that has claimed to be no-log and then got a government subpoena. At that point you have 2 options: A.) Shut down, or B.) Code a technical way to capture the requested information for that user.

Sometimes they do choose to shut down and sometimes there isn't a technically feasible way to get the information.

Linker95,

Did that happen to Proton or Mullvad?

VoxAdActa,
VoxAdActa avatar

My general philosophy is that anything advertised on YouTube or podcasts is automatically a scam. So I'd avoid NordVPN in favor of literally any other service just on principle. Outside of that, though all I've heard is the same general grumblings about price and deceptive advertising.

Xylight,

NordVPN was breached in 2018, and they took an entire year to tell people that they were breached. They’re also quite expensive, while there is many other options.

ghariksforge,

I recommend Mullvad if you are looking for a decent VPN provider.

GustavoM, (edited )
@GustavoM@lemmy.world avatar

In a nutshell -- it transforms your PC/phone into a honeypot for third parties.

heliumlake,
@heliumlake@lemmy.world avatar

Most VPN services are a sham. They just hide your network activity from your ISP, however they have full visibility in to your network traffic. Some of these VPN providers are even owned by ad agencies, but advertise privacy as a selling point. You’re better off running your own WireGuard or OpenVPN server at home or with a VPS. At least you will have control over the server and limit your exposure to unscrupulous VPN companies. (Yes using a VPS is shifting the trust from one to the other, but you will have to make a decision that is right for you.)

Kerploppus,

Well, my experience was that their shit didn't work very well. Lots of DNS leaking despite correct setup, and customer service just shrugged it off. It did work right for a while under linux using the system's network manager to connect to their servers directly, but over time they made it harder and harder to find their sever list by burying it deeper and deeper on their website.

Ultimately, I couldn't use it under windows without using their client, which constantly disconnected itself and left me unprotected. It would just shut itself off. Then they went ahead and helped themselves to my money way ahead of schedule for a renewal I didn't want, and I had to threaten them with a fraud report for several days before they caved and gave my money back.

I wasn't happy with them selling me shit that barely worked and then stealing my money so I'd just stay instead of fighting them for a refund. Reason enough for anyone to avoid them.

Chobbes,

Honestly, all of these VPN companies deserve a lot of hate for having some pretty deceptive advertising and fearmongering. VPNs definitely have their uses, but the average person probably doesn't need one... Especially not for "security" purposes.

vsg,

Also, how often do you want to watch a Netflix movie/show that is not available in your country?

tiredofsametab,

American living in Japan: a lot (though other services, not Netflix). Even before moving to Japan, certain BBC content, etc.

Chobbes,

This is the thing I don’t mind VPN companies advertising about, because yeah, they can work to get around region restrictions, and that’s a totally valid use for them that some people will appreciate. If you have a specific use case like this, by all means pay for a VPN… But if you’re just using it as a magic internet condom… I don’t think it’s worth your money.

In general the claims about security at a coffee shop or whatever are kind of bunk, and any privacy benefits are kind of overstated (especially if you don’t think you have a reason to trust the VPN provider more than your ISP). There isn’t a complete lack of truth to these claims, but I don’t think they’re true in a way that’s meaningful to the average person who isn’t tech savvy, and I think there’s often a lack of transparency about certain aspects such as the fact that technically the VPN provider can log everything anybody else would, and you have no way of knowing.

ktr41n,

I use it for torrenting and it works great. Wouldn't send my credit card number through it, but I feel like that would be retarded with any provider...

JoshuaEN,

FYI you're probably being downvoted because the r word is a slur in modern English.

Also, a VPN is just an extra wrapper around your network traffic.

Your credit cards are no less safe over a VPN, except for the fact the VPN software is installed on your device and could be doing something malicious, but at that point it doesn't need to be turned on or visibily running to steal your data.

tallwookie,
@tallwookie@lemmy.world avatar

dunno, I used it for a while and then stopped. it worked ok, no real complaints.

mystic0man,

None of the other answers I’m seeing are the actual reasons you shouldn’t trust more specifically. The reason you shouldn’t trust them is because a few years ago they had a data breach. It was relatively small and wouldn’t have effected many if any people but the problem was they didn’t disclose it and tried to bury it. It wasn’t found out about until a few years later. That should tell you if they had a major data breach that did affect you they would try to hide that from you and you would never know unless a you were made aware through other means.

Source: techradar.com/…/whats-the-truth-about-the-nordvpn…

ColonelSanders,
ColonelSanders avatar

I'll be honest I have no idea about the "ads" that others speak of, mainly because I don't ever see any ads for them (I had adblocker installed on everything AND I have a subscription to Nord VPN). I wouldn't say I'm biased though because if there was a good enough reason to switch, I'd have no problem doing so, so I can tell you that at least so far, after having had a subscription for 2-3 years, I haven't really had much complaint with them. Occasionally there will be weird issues where right after a downloaded update, for some reason it has a hard time connecting, but it doesn't usually last very long and those kind of things are always one-offs.

I do like that it also has both an Onion over VPN and P2P function. I haven't used the onion one yet because I rarely ever use Tor (and I'm not sure, based on my limited understanding of Tor/Onion routing, whether VPN does anything anyway as from what I can tell/read at best it doesn't really provide any additional security and at worst it may in fact create a backdoor way for tracking). I do occasionally use the P2P for torrenting though and haven't had any issues there either (and no "C&D notices" from any companies).

But again, I'm perfectly open to using other programs, but for now I just haven't had any issues with it personally so if you were looking for an opinion from someone who uses it, there you go.

alokir,

I don't know why others don't like them but I personally dislike them and Express because of false advertising.

They make it seem like a vpn protects you from everything online, from hackers, phishing attacks, viruses etc and provides absolute privacy no matter what. This is not what a vpn does.

I also wonder how they can get away with marketing themselves as a way to get around geoblocking. I don't personally mind this part but I assume it's a legal gray area for them so they do it until they can get away with it.

Hillock,

I can't find the document right now but NordVPN was always ranked very high on r/VPN. So I assume there is nothing wrong with using it and it's one of the few products where the money spent on marketing didn't influence the quality.

Or they also paid the person who maintained the ranking list.

vaspasean,

As others have said, my biggest problem with NordVPN is the dishonest ads. Other big commercial VPN providers are guilty of it, too. A VPN provides very little in the way of security. Tom Scott has a pretty good break down of the problem with VPN ads.

I also object to their pricing. They push you to commit to a 1-2 year contract. If you have a good reason to use a VPN often (like bypassing geographic restrictions) then maybe it makes sense. For me, I rarely need it. If I do want to use a VPN, I can get 30 days with Mullvad for 5 euro without signing up for a year+ commitment.

WhiteTiger,
WhiteTiger avatar

ProtonVPN, one of the most recommended VPNs that I can find, also pushes you toward a 1-2 year contract. Mullvad is probably the only one that doesn't (and they just removed port forwarding).

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