It doesn’t work perfectly and humanity pushes back over time. The issue is the pace of technology is too fast for our ability to push back. I’m hopeful our good side will win but I’m afraid it will take deaths by the millions again for people to wake up and fight back against the real enemies among us.
Once upon a time that would have been a simple answer, given the concentrated ownership of news that could reach any one person. But now with the Internet, there is less and less control by any one group. Certainly the age of the rich effectively controlling the media is over.
But now with the Internet, there is less and less control by any one group. Certainly the age of the rich effectively controlling the media is over.
Pr teams have successfully learned how to use social media, and social media giants promote views that are beneficial to them like fascism while suppressing left wing content.
I dont think the internet existing makes us a democracy, the parasocial nature of a lot of internet content actually makes it so people are more able to sell their propaganda.
There is plenty of media that exists outside of media giants. Case in point, there is a local blogger here in Portland, OR that runs bikeportland.org to cover bikes and related subjects. His blog posts and discussions on them are a major part of the local discourse around infrastructure in Portland. He’s not rich, but he exercises influence.
If independent media, as a whole, got too influential to the point that it was threatening the system, it would be targeted. We’ve seen this play out over and over again under capitalism. You literally just have to look to history to see this.
Targeted with what? At least in the US, there has been a build up of case law over the past century and a half or so that provides vigorous protections of freedom of speech. The Red Scare is remembered as a scar on the US’s past, not to be repeated. Yes, there are still people with a vigorous taste for censorship, but there’s vigorous pushback against them.
At least in the US, there has been a build up of case law over the past century and a half or so that provides vigorous protections of freedom of speech. The Red Scare is remembered as a scar on the US’s past, not to be repeated.
This is funny because we are currently going through a red scare.
You just can’t reconcile the fact people don’t vote how you want, therefore the system must be broken. And spreading voting apathy by telling people it’s all bullshit is one of the most damaging things you could do to your democracy. You’re better for Trump than most Republicans.
What is your definition of “meaningful political action”? Picking up guns? Got news for you, the government has more of them.
Voting starts at the local level. You vote people into local city government who reflect your views and values. Those people often enough have greater aspirations and want to move up in the political machine. It’s extremely rare for someone to be vaulted from average Joe to major political player in one leap. Trump was able to do it by being a populist piece of shit who could pay his way into office.
You have to start small. Get your city council to look like you, then move on to the county, the state, etc.
What is your definition of “meaningful political action”? Picking up guns? Got news for you, the government has more of them.
Do you really think the two options for politics are voting in sham elections and WACO?
Voting starts at the local level. You vote people into local city government who reflect your views and values. Those people often enough have greater aspirations and want to move up in the political machine. It’s extremely rare for someone to be vaulted from average Joe to major political player in one leap. Trump was able to do it by being a populist piece of shit who could pay his way into office.
You have to start small. Get your city council to look like you, then move on to the county, the state, etc.
Local elections are also pretty much a “which landlord can pay the most money and be the least repulsive”
You have to build parallel power structures before you can meaningfully influence any electoral structure, including local ones.
This is so dumb. He didn’t try to not let people vote. Every loser every year claims recounts are needed, they just usually don’t use the system to try and prove it. He’s using the system to try and prove it. The system is there for a reason
Stop trying to claim he’s stopping people from voting.
He claimed 3 million illegal votes during an election he won. 3 million… then what did he do once becoming president after an accusation of the largest voter fraud claim for a democracy in history? Nothing. Barely mentioned it. No enormous investigation to arrest the thousands of people that would have needed to be involved to coordinate 3 million illegal votes. Nothing. Why? Because it was just something for him to say off the cuff. He took a page from his hero Roy Cohn to just declare victory even when defeated. Lose a case? Just claim victory. Lose a popular vote count? Just claim victory. He has done it all his life and doesn’t care how easily it is for some people to believe his off-the-cuff lies even when they can threaten democracy itself. He will never concede a loss and doesn’t care who it hurts. He will also never have the evidence for his claims because he doesn’t need any.
You mustn’t have paid any attention to his barrage of executive orders and insanely corrupt appointments. The Supreme Court nominations alone are more than eyebrow raising.
Here’s a really simple video explaining why in a first past the post system voting for a third party is the worst thing you can do as you will only harm the larger party that you are most aligned with youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo?si=W8hd2GZCL15L6KU7
Ok, the problem I see is that Turtle, Snake, Owl, etc. seem to be only worried about being on the “winning” side regardless if the candidate is against their values. They’ve also been victims of Political Propaganda (Negative ads). Each time they vote for the Lesser of Two Evils they are giving conceding a little more and more each time. Get rid of Gerrymandering and replace it with Ranked Choice Voting to eliminate the “Spoiler Effect.” Vote with you conscious and not your desire to Win.
100% agree that ranked voting/proportional representation is a much better option. The problem with FPTP is you have to keep picking the lesser evil or the greater evil wins. It’s a bad system, I’m lucky in a country that doesn’t use FPTP
Incorrect, stop worrying about being on the winning side. Vote with your values. Then if it all burns down you can take solace in the fact you voted correctly according to you. Help educate others on voting for a candidate who will get Government out of your house and wallet, Libertarian candidate. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil. The only way out is to vote differently. Get enough people to vote differently and change will come. Voters have been brainwashed into thinking there are only two options.
Libertarian?! Good luck with that. You know what, go ahead. Vote for a third party, I just not sure how you’ll get to a polling station without using the public funded road system, oh well
Yes, IF it is a Ranked Choice election great idea to for the party you most align with. If it's a first past the post election, it's really bad idea (unless you align most with a party that can win).
I am not familiar with the US system. Is it really realistic that a US president can abolish or fundamentally change the rules around the democratic process?
A lot of our best institutions are based on gentleman’s agreements. If our representatives must ignore the processes we’ve come to expect, because those processes were never actually written down or coded into law… Yeah, the president has an unbelievable amount of uncheckable power to make the government just not run as intended.
The basic hypothesis is that if the president did something treasonous, he could be arrested by the military, who are sworn to protect the Constitution.
He couldnt change the rules, because our legislators do that, and its all written in the Constitution. But he could fail to appoint people, appoint people to multiple cabinet positions, or some other weird ways to get around this.
No, what you’re reading here is over the top fear mongering to try and get people to vote for their side. That why everyone who doesn’t toe the line are now “facist.” Because if you can get people to become afraid they’ll vote against their own interests (and as much as they like to claim they do, the DNC in no way is working in our own interests)
I don’t know much about US politics, but is Biden the only choice you have besides voting for Trump? There’s zero alternatives? I’ve seen in the comments that people prefer Biden to other democrat candidates, because he already beat Trump already, so it has better chances to beat him again. But realistically, it seems like everyone hates Trump with a burning passion, so any Democrat that is not batshit insane and totally incompetent would beat him, right? Seems like an easy win.
It’s a first past the post system with only two major political parties. That means the choice is either the selected Democrat or the selected Republican, who are elected via a complex primary process that differs from state to state.
Voting third party in the U.S. achieves absolutely nothing. Especially when there are almost never third party choices for lower office, aside from the libertarians and they’re nuts. If you are determined to not vote for any Democrats or Republicans, your vote has the same effect as staying home and not voting.
I would love this to change, but I don’t foresee that happening anytime soon.
It does not achieve absolutely nothing. It sends a message of policy requirements to obtain a percentage of votes. Meaning, if dems lose enough elections by a margin that is seen voting elsewhere they will have to move their policy to secure those votes and start winning again. The problem now is with trump threatening our freedoms and democracy, we can’t afford to teach those stubborn centrists a lesson in true progressive policy.
Go a reread the last sentence in my statement and explain how that implies trump has to win. Ive clearly stated the problem is with trump running, we can’t afford to lose to teach the dem establishment a lesson.
You know what is even less rational? Parroting the same shit that has been repeated ad nauseum by liberals for the past 40 years and then expecting an improved outcome.
That’s not how this works. That’s not how any of this works.
Democrats losing your vote to a 3rd party doesn’t trigger some kind of response within the party that will push them to embrace the tactics of the 3rd party that siphoned off your vote. If anything, it demonstrates to them that they should maybe push further right in an attempt to court Trump voters. But it’s cute that you believe you’re making a difference.
Congratulations. Instead of holding your nose and voting for the one guy who COULD beat trump and avoid sending the country into fascism, your principled stand allowed a fascist to rise to power AND sent Democrats the message that people prefer fascism.
What it can do eventually is destory the democratic party, then since we are in a two party system a new more leftist party can finally move in. Afterall one of the most important parts of the Democratic party is to make sure people like Bernie, let alone anyone to left of him, have no chance to be elected. They are the biggest barrier to progress.
Yes I am sure. Everytime someone to the left of Bernie get’s anywhere close to power you will hear democrats like Pelosi or Schumer have “concerns” about reaching across the isle, the budget for things like universal healthcare. You’ll have them tout truisms like “we need to be a united not divided in the face of terrorism.” Just look at who fund the democrats on the local levels, parasites like land-lords, insurance companies, banks. All of these industries thrive under the status-quo. You think they want progressive taxation, universal healthcare, or non-profit banking?
What this actually does is tell the Democratic Party that you’re unreliable and shouldn’t be catered to. Have you ever noticed how the Democratic Party gives a disproportionately prominent place to Black women? That’s because they have a long history of getting themselves involved and working to get others to the polls. Effective activists work as part of something greater.
Hey, chin up. If the batshit nuts right wing of the GOP keep going the way they are maybe we’ll get a brand spanking new fascist third party. Lol, third party achieved!
Tangent for a moment: I’m kind of curious, if we could somehow encourage more stupidity on the right. Perhaps, the GOP would fracture into two parties.
In the short term, it could give Dems a large say in everything. Bolstered by the fact that the hard right is very performative and not really interested in doing any real work. In the more medium term, maybe that would finally give some freedom to open the door for more Dems and voters to peel off into yet another party.
I guess at that point, the danger is the right would then realize the situation. Rally their fractured party and completely ice out Dems and whatever left party that came out of the above. Multipolar politics at the party level could get really freaking scary too.
I really doubt the GOP splits. As much as the Trump and anti-Trump factions of the party dislike each other, they’re stuck together by the evil of strategic voting. We would need a different voting system to allow the existence of a third party that doesn’t also act as a spoiler.
So what you’re talking about is a primary contender from the democratic party, but generally the incumbent party doesn’t have a primary for the president. Your only real options are the Democrat (Biden, unless he dies), or the Republican (looking like Trump, but they will have a primary). You can vote for other people, but it doesn’t do anything. You might as well try to get the better option than choosing not to vote out of spite, and getting whatever happens regardless.
Yeah, totally an option, or he is found guilty of treason or some other disqualifying thing. I was just pointing out that Republicans do have a primary this election for president, so there are more options for them.
Legend tells that the primaries are where the vote for your candidate of choice actually counts, but as 2016 showed, they are allowed to and will happpily ignore it in favor of the party’s selected ghoul.
So, yeah, it’s a pick between the mostly bad and the completely utterly awful.
Joe Biden has the authority to resign. Joe Biden can choose to not run in 2024. If he cared about preserving democracy, he would let someone more electible take his place.
If things go wrong, it’s the fault of the people in power.
Came here to say this. If the dems actually cared about winning and preserving any last inkling of democracy the states still has then they would replace Biden with literally any other candidate.
Random tangent aside, sure, yes she would have a better chance. Biden is 1000 years old and the Zooms are not about his buddy-buddy-MIC stance. Biden will not beat a Trump rematch.
Biden is all of 3 years older than Trump and more coherent than Trump was 20 years ago. It’s such a bizarre fixation.
And you think Harris has a better shot when she literally has the lowest rating of any VP in the history of NBC News polls? When she consistently polls lower than Biden? When Mike Pence who was literally threatened with hanging by his own supporters had a higher approval rating? Get real.
The people who plug their ears at the notion of going 3rd party are the same dorks who got “blindsided” when Trump won in 2016.
If the Dems run Biden, I genuinely think it will be Trump. I do not want it to be Trump.
Enough of the older lemmy crowd seem to ignore the fact that the zooms have like 8-9(?) years of eligible voters who are all decently pissed about the middle east. We keep seeing record turnouts amongst the youth each/every year. So like…I just hate to see that most of the responses were of the “who tf cares what they do? they won’t vote either way” is lame as shit.
If you genuinely all think this is gunna be a slam dunk for Biden, why not run a different/younger candidate? If anybody can beat Trump, why Biden specifically? I’m only 3rd party if it’s Biden again, not a threat. I just can’t reasonably vote for him or Trump. I won’t do it.
Tell Joe to pass on the torch to somebody w/ an active pulse and I’ll take the DNC a bit more seriously… Obviously pushing to the right isn’t fucking working because the other dorks are voting R regardless.
Give me a real candidate. Anybody under the age 59 (fuck you Kamala) and you’ve got my vote.
I will say it again and again until it sinks in. The options are Biden or Trump. There is no third option. Anyone who says otherwise hasn’t been paying attention.
Zoomers don’t matter. Young people don’t vote. Elections are decided by adults, and the average age of high political activity in America is from the 50 And over crowd.
Joe Biden has already beat Donald Trump in an election. More electable makes no sense in this context.
The only way Biden could lose is if some of the people who voted for him last time, after everything that’s happened since Trump lost the election, decide ‘ehh, that Trump guy wasn’t so bad, let’s give him another shot’ and decide not to vote against Trump.
Biden won an election during Covid lockdown where he wasn’t expected to actually campaign. I don’t think he can win again. It’s sad, but he’s an awful candidate.
The people who plug their ears at the notion of going 3rd party are the same dorks who got “blindsided” when Trump won in 2016.
If the Dems run Biden, I genuinely think it will be Trump. I do not want it to be Trump.
Enough of the older lemmy crowd seem to ignore the fact that the zooms have like 8-9(?) years of eligible voters who are all decently pissed about the middle east. We keep seeing record turnouts amongst the youth each/every year. So like…I just hate to see that most of the responses were of the “who tf cares what they do? they won’t vote either way” is lame as shit.
If you genuinely all think this is gunna be a slam dunk for Biden, why not run a different/younger candidate? If anybody can beat Trump, why Biden specifically? I’m only 3rd party if it’s Biden again, not a threat. I just can’t reasonably vote for him or Trump. I won’t do it.
Tell Joe to pass on the torch to somebody w/ an active pulse and I’ll take the DNC a bit more seriously… Obviously pushing to the right isn’t fucking working because the other dorks are voting R regardless.
Give me a real candidate. Anybody under the age 59 (fuck you Kamala) and you’ve got my vote.
The incumbent president has only lost 10 times in US history (and one of those was Trump). Biden already beat Trump once. Who has a better resume than that?
Not to mention Biden actually had a great run and got a shitload done, but this is what you get when you have 24/7 banana republic propaganda blaring in people’s homes.
Also Lemmy itself. This place is a cesspool of mis and disinformation. I come here to waste a little time mindlessly doom-scrolling and shouting into the void, not because I actually think that I’ll find informed, intelligent and insightful comments.
Why isn’t he electable? He was already elected. Are you saying he’s old? Trump is 3 years younger. Before Biden, Trump was the oldest president of all time.
This was the exact shit said in 2020 and for years before that. There is no ‘next generation Democrat’ because the Dems are just as complicit in this farce as the Republicans. I refuse to vote for the party of “maybe we’ll try to slow the rapid descent into christofascist capitalism just a little a bit, as long as it doesn’t make the shareholders mad.”
It’s called “compromise” to make progress. Giving up allows the situation you’re complaining about to only get worse.
We have to change our voting system in order to break out of the two party system, and only one of the two parties have people that support changing our voting system for the better. So, as shitty as it is, not voting Democrat is effectively voting against your own interests.
Dems have to do something beyond sad attempts at change if they want my vote. Oh what, if i don’t fall in line the republicans will win? Wow i guess the democratic party will need to become significantly more progressive.
Get over the fact that the DNC is not perfect. Voting Democrat is literally the only option to implement voting practices that will eventually break out of the two party system. The Republicans are actively doing their best to remove your power to vote.
Without trying to sound contentious, how is voting for one of the two major parties supposed to help break out of the two party system? Have the Democrats ever put forward any kind of legislation supporting things like eliminating first-past-the-post?
To be clear, I don’t disagree that the Dems are the lesser of two devils in this election but I don’t know if it’s fair to waive a banner of hope for either party at this point.
electoral college and first past the post helps republicans and hurts democrats… if you want systemic change, vote for the party that has the most to gain from the systemic change you’d like to see, and then work to make that systemic change happen
democrats almost always win the popular vote… the electoral college is part of the mechanism that gives smaller states that tend to be more republican greater voting power than larger states
and as far as FPTP, third party candidate votes tend toward more democratic candidates. given the spoiler effect (a 3rd party candidate draws the most votes from the 2 party candidate they’re closest to: if they didn’t run, most of their votes would have gone to their closest candidate. given they’re unlikely to win due to how the mathematics and sociology of voting systems work, a successful 3rd party candidate is always bad for their voters), that means that if RCV or similar were implemented, on balance those votes for 3rd parties would mean democrats get more votes
This hypothetical is based on ranked choice voting being suddenly implemented everywhere at once.
We also need to fix the gerrymandering, as well as the overall vote-limiting laws, in red states which would drastically change how those states appear within the scope of the electoral college. Ranked choice voting would greatly help with that.
What is the point of voting at all if you’re not going to vote for either of the two people who actually has a chance of winning?
No one knows who you vote for. At best, it’s a pointless personal moral victory that no one else will be aware of. You can literally stay home and just tell people you voted for someone and they won’t be any the wiser.
So why bother? To fractionally increase the vast margin your candidate is still going to lose by?
You think that one of the two major parties will help you do away with the voting system that favors the major parties? This is not how it works. Having a few people that support change in the party is meaningless as long as it is not a stated objective (which it isn’t)
So we’re supposed to keep voting for the same center right libs for eternity? The party leaders of the Democrats will never allow things like ranked choice voting because it takes power away from them. I do agree with you that at the local and state levels Democrats are far more likely than Republicans to support RCV, however with the federal Democrats in power nothing will change.
If Trump wanted to get rid of voting, why didn’t he do so last time? How about we just get better security at the capitol, and eliminate whatever loophole he was trying to use in the insurrection?
Lol! Tell me you think Trump would have handled Isreal differently!
He would have. He would have sent twice the funds! Fucking idiots just running around free out here. Don’t you remember when Trump unilaterally decide Isreal would be the capital.
That’s whats the coup attempt was for, as well as the attempts to override or stop polls from counting the votes across the country. Just because he failed this time doesn’t mean it won’t happen again. Hitler was democratically elected after becoming famous for the book he wrote in jail after being arrested during the Nazi’s first failed coup attempt, Mein Kampf. He then consolidated political power into a new position with the support of party members who were elected to key positions, and he then appointed himself to that new position. Same as what has happened in many other countries. A few crazies in the right seats. The Nazi party only made up 13% of the German population at its height. That’s all it takes.
Because they’re part of the system run by the wealthy and powerful, and younger peeps not only have to claw their way into that microcosm, but are often then bought out / corrupted by that very system.
The ‘viable’ third party candidates in my lifetime so far have been Ross Perot, Ralph Nader and RFK, Jr. None of them had a real chance and all of them were one flavor or another of crazy.
So maybe a third party can fix things, but none of the ones that have ever had a chance within the past 46 years.
Okay. Name the candidate aside from Trump or Biden that has a good chance of winning in 2024. Go ahead. Because otherwise, as I keep suggesting, it looks to me like a vote for someone else is no better than no vote at all.
I keep asking what it achieves and I’m not getting an answer.
If all you care about achieving is “I feel good about myself,” fine. But that doesn’t seem like a reason to make the effort to vote.
The Liberatian party seems like a decent alternative to the Dems so you could go for Jo Jorgensen. But anything that isn’t Republican or Democrats is a requirement for a moral vote.
The Liberatian party seems like a decent alternative to the Dems so you could go for Jo Jorgensen.
In what way are Libertarians an alternative to Democrats? Democrats want a strong social safety net and Libertarians want a government so small you could drown it in a bathtub.
You either know nothing about Libertarians or nothing about Democrats.
If you care about the cultural freedoms they’re the same. Also the non intervention policies are a lot better than throwning all your money into the military industrial complex which you seem to call “Healthcare”.
Else you got the Greens.
Unless of course you want everything the Democrats do including the genocide part. Then I can’t help ya.
They’re not even close to the same. I have never heard a libertarian say that taxes should be raised on the rich to pay for social services. Every libertarian I have ever talked to or read about is against all taxation and thinks everything should be privatized. They’re as far apart politically as you can get.
As for healthcare, please do show me the libertarian that wants universal healthcare paid for by taxes.
I was looking through their comments to see if they were worth replying to, and this exchange here confirms it’s absolutely not worth it. It’s laughable how arrogant they are with how little they actually know about US politics.
Well you better stop voting for the parties of Capital then. Your vote is already almost meaningless, so use it to make a better world before its too late!
Trump isn’t going to be president so no need to “stop” him. But if I assume you aren’t as myopic as your question suggests, then stopping the collusion of Capital via the false choice of the parties of Capital is the long term goal. Limiting our actions to voting, you have very little power, but power that none-the-less should be exercised.
In a first past the post system, only 2 parties at a time can be front-runners. Those parties do not have to be the same for ever and ever. In the history of the US many parties have risen and fallen, and there is no reason the same can’t occur for the Capitalist parties. In fact it is inevitable. The material interests of you (assuming you aren’t a billionaire, or rent-seeking class) are currently not being addressed by either party. So it is your duty to vote for a party who DOES represent your material interests. If you vote either blue or red you are voting against your material interests and mine and 90% of the citizens of the US.
Because Biden’s flaw isn’t his age. That’s the propaganda. Biden’s flaw is that most of America are mouth-breathing retards that don’t understand what political ideology is and vote for the guy who says “it’s not your fault, it’s that guy’s fault!”
“If you don’t give me something better, I’ll default to the objectively worse choice and fuck myself over out of spite.”
Conservative logic. Except it’s a lie, the only way you’d vote for anyone but a corporate fascist is if the other guy was an even bigger corporate fascist. You are 100% fine with the status quo, because you happen to profit from it. Or fear, could be straight up fear.
And they’re always going to offer you a slightly better, but immensely shitty choice. It’s not conservative logic on their end, it’s battered spouse syndrome on yours.
It’s conservative logic to vote for the obviously worse choice out of spite for fake reasons. I"M VOTING FOR TRUMP BECAUSE BIDEN IS 3 YEARS OLDER THAN HIM.
I would propose voting for a better choice, but an independent or third party. I vote for president to secure ballot access so third parties can run people easily in local elections.
The logic you’re using is really dumb coming from someone not in the ruling class.
Your one bit of power is to say, “I’ll vote for you if you put forth a candidate I can get behind.” The second you accept the terms of “you have to vote for X, because Y is worse” you lose all political power. They can do anything they want. They can lie about anything. They don’t have to do anything to fight for your vote.
I’m just sick of this smug bullshit from people practicing “real politik”. You don’t live in a democracy, you’re openly admitting it, and you can’t even see it.
Okay but you’re living in a fantasy world. In reality, it’s a 2 party system and you vote for the guy who will fuck you over least. Project 2025 is the plan. Let’s not have Project 2025 come to fruition.
Fuck off with your astroturfing unproductive non-takes. Biden is perfectly viable. Beholden to the mic? You think that’s the biggest issue this election cycle?
Israel wasnt openly doing genocide then. Trump wasn’t giving weekly press conferences confirming his support for genocide. Trump wasn’t repeating blatantly obvious fake news about a genocide (he saved that for things he cared about). And what’s more, he got us OUT of the war that Biden and Obama perpetuated for their entire 8 years. Forget all the nonsense, none of that matters in the face of genocide. One guy is actively aiding in it, and the other most likely couldn’t give 2 shits about it, due to it not being a potential scam. I choose the guy who isn’t openly supporting genocide.
Hmmm… I think I’ll go for the second this time around.
I’d also vote for DeSantis or Ramaswami this election. I refuse to vote for Biden (or whoever is calling the shots behind him), or Harris, or Newsom.
Seriously, how is it possible that my own party can’t get their shit together and find an actually likable candidate that can at least convince me they might be doing it for my own interests?
As a Canadian looking from the outside in, it really does seem to be trending in that direction… any further Republican wins will mean the end of democracy, with America sliding into a ChristoFascist Autocracy.
I fear for my American neighbours, but we have similar problems up here; we just happen to be a decade or so behind you folk.
Also Canadian. We are certainly on the same path. It feels like everyone around our part of the country is a “fuck Trudeau” type that just clearly wants the 1950’s to return and women where they should be. As a very liberal but not so political person it’s kinda scary.
If you remember when Trudeau was first elected, they called him the Selfie King or some idiotic shit like that. Like, the fact that he took photos with young people is somehow a reason to hate him. The propaganda and astroturfing has been ongoing for 8 years. It’s called “foreign interference”.
It actually potentially does. I’d suggest looking into Project 2025. If you’re not familiar with it, it’s a political battle plan being put forward by a bunch of hard-right think tanks with substantial connections which would effectively establish a theocracy in the US. My understanding is that part of the plan hinges on the president basically removing anyone who can stop him and replace them with sycophants (which they’re currently populating a list of). The idea is that if they’re able to remove enough people, they can do whatever they want. They don’t need a majority in the supreme court or house of representatives because they can just ignore them; the sycophants will follow whatever orders they’re given regardless of what the house or court says.
To put it another way, they’ve realized the house and scotus only have power if that power is respected; if they remove anyone in-between the president and the other branches who’d say “no” and replace them with yes-men, then there’s no one to stop the president from doing whatever he wants. That said, I’d be willing to bet the moment the president says “no” to the scotus is the moment they’ll make a show of how much power they truly have, but it’ll get really bloody if that happens.
You know Lincoln told the supreme court to fuck off right? Was he “dictator” was it the end of democracy? Were people like you reading bathroom scrawling and screeching about project 1862?
There was also a civil war under Lincoln. Additionally, last time I checked Lincoln also wasn’t trying to overthrow the entire government and replace it with a theocracy. He was trying to abolish slavery. Reducing the country’s authoritarianism is kinda the opposite of what Trump & Co. are trying to achieve.
That is such a poor comparison that I’m seriously wondering if you’re trolling. If so, 4/10, you got me respond but your comparison is so poor that it left me questioning whether or not it was genuine.
Just like it didn’t last time because we managed to avert the attempt? You’re right, let’s give the same people another go, I’m sure they’ve given up on that idea by now.
Avert it how, by voting him out? Which he followed by stepping down?
People say his fighting the results in courts are proof of him trying to overthrow, but it’s not, it’s proof that he used the system correctly, in the legal ways he could. He may still claim to have won, but his actions are not that of a dictator attempting to overthrow democracy.
That being said, it’s still not clear who the republican nominee will end up being.
No. Did you know they wanted to send international observers for the last election because of worries that the US no longer adheres to democratic process? They were turned away, of course.
You know, like in third world nations and dictatorships.
There are only two parties that have a mathematical chance of winning. You can throw your vote away on a third party, hoping to get them 20x their highest ever turn-out in the hopes that they get more money if you want. But know that what you are actually doing is indistinguishable from simply not voting. Work on getting ranked-choice voting in your state first, then vote your conscience. Voting third party now just guarantees another 4+ years of Trump.
No, it’ll also be the fault of idiots like you who think you get the privilege of voting for someone you really like instead of just getting to pick the least bad option. You have the chance to vote to keep trans people safe for another 4 years, to keep abortion legal on the federal level for the next four years, etc. You choosing not to do that in the desperate bid to feel like your hands are clean will directly result in harm to those around you. Your hands will be dirty either way.
Isn’t the “privilege of voting for someone you like” called “your right to vote”?
You think my right to vote is a privilege?
But sure, according to this meme voting democrat is the only way to protect voting rights which don’t exist and are a privilege
I won’t be moralistically scolded into voting for the moderate wing of fascism.
Right, you’ll instead be convinced to feel morally superior while supporting (by not voting against) the non-moderate wing of fascism. Won’t you just feel so clean and superior while Trump harms the people you want to protect?
It’s privileged to think that you have an inherent right to vote for someone who aligns with all your values. You vote for the person who has the best chance of winning who aligns most closely with your values. You vote for the person who has the best chance of stopping the fascist from winning.You have to be strategic with your vote as long as our system is FPTP. Or you can tacitly support the fascists while claiming to be morally superior by not voting.
“It’s privileged to think that you have an inherent right to vote”
There it is again
“You vote for the person who has the best chance of stopping the fascist from winning.”
But you are a fascist. You don’t support my right to vote. You support Joe Biden, who is continuing to build the wall, has not stopped putting kids in cages in concentration camps, is funding a genocide in Gaza, sat idly by while abortion rights got overturned instead of codifying Roe, and on and on and on. Every metric libs used to call Trump a fascist applies to Joe Biden. It’s so boring.
“while supporting (by not voting against)”
Hang on, if I don’t vote Trump that means I’m not voting against Biden. By your logic that means I am effectively supporting Joe Biden. So we’re good then, I did what you want. Lmao, it never gets old how moronic democrats are. Endless free entertainment.
“It’s privileged to think that you have an inherent right to vote” for someone who aligns with all your values
It might be helpful for you to read the entire sentence instead of just cutting it off halfway through to make it sound like a different sentence. You don’t have the right to a candidate that agrees with you on everything, or even most things. You have the right to vote for the person of the available options that would do the most good and least harm for the country.
But you are a fascist. You don’t support my right to vote.
See, I’d you had finished reading that sentence earlier you would have understood. I’m gonna assume you haven’t yet got full brain-damage and recognize that the Democrats, while not as good as they should be, are better in every measurable way than the modern Republicans, which are full-blown fascists. Save me the drivel about “scratch a liberal” and think for a moment about the actual differences. Is Biden going to sign a federal abortion ban or a ban on trans health care? Is Trump going to pass anything to help with climate change?
You can plug your ears and scream “but both sides are exactly the same!” As much as you like, reality shows that’s not the case. Lives, especially of minorities, are measurably better under Democratic leadership than Republican leadership.
You support Joe Biden, who is continuing to build the wall, has not stopped putting kids in cages in concentration camps, is funding a genocide in Gaza, sat idly by while abortion rights got overturned instead of codifying Roe, and on and on and on. Every metric libs used to call Trump a fascist applies to Joe Biden. It’s so boring.
I support voting for Biden if the options on the table are Biden or Trump. I don’t support all or most of what Biden has done, but it would take an idiot to think Trump would do any of it better than Biden.
Biden built a small section of wall after he was forced to by the previous administration. He has not approved or requested any additional funds to build any additional wall not already ear-marked by Trump.
He has stopped separating kids from their parents or families at the border with no documentation as the previous administration did. It’s now only kids who cross the border without a parent or guardian. We could do better, but it is an improvement over the intentional damage done by Trump.
His support for Israel sucks, but are you somehow under the impression Trump would do better? The guy who moved the embassy to Jerusalem? The guys who put his son-in-law in charge of a peace proposal which would have given total control of Palestine to Israel in perpetuity?
What exactly did you want Biden to do when Roe was overturned? Use the nonexistent margin in the Senate or the house controlled by Republicans to change the court or force through a federal law? Unfortunately, because idiots like you didn’t vote for the Dems in 2016 and allowed Trump to win, he got to set all the pieces in motion to overturn Roe. If idiots like you had voted against Trump we would not be in this situation.
Fascism: a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Tell me how exactly Biden does any of those things, especially any of them more than Trump. Obviously I’d prefer someone better than Biden but that isn’t the world we live in.
Hang on, if I don’t vote Trump that means I’m not voting against Biden. By your logic that means I am effectively supporting Joe Biden. So we’re good then, I did what you want. Lmao, it never gets old how moronic democrats are. Endless free entertainment.
This is important, before you continue reading I need you to check that your carbon monoxide alarms are working in your house.
It’s really simple, you either vote against the Republicans by voting for the Democrats and as a result things are less bad, or you do something else (vote third party, don’t vote) and allow things to get worse.
You have the option to help make things less bad for you and those around you, but instead you feel like you can remain morally superior by throwing your vote away and pretending like you didn’t have a hand in allowing the bad to happen. You do and you did. Not voting is still a choice you make, and you’ll have to live with the consequences of. The fact of the matter is your selfish desire to feel superior will help the Republicans bring about full fascism, but it’ll be worth it so you can tell yourself you’re above it all, right? You are the guy standing at the switch of the trolley problem going, “Well at least I didn’t pull the switch and kill those two people” while the train runs over 10.
It’s literally a mathematical certainty. Every single Democrat would have to vote against Joe Biden for a third party, or else the vote would be split, and we’d guarantee a Trump win.
I don’t know, I’m sure there’s plenty of people on the right that don’t like either candidate, and would probably vote for 3rd party if people would stop this nonsense that there are only 2 parties.
Any third-party run that pulls from both parties is gonna end up being an “enlightened centrist” group like No Labels and we’ll get more of the exact same.
The majority of people do not hold extreme left or extreme right views. While the majority of democratic and republican candidatesaree trying to match up to the extremes of their parties, and you get the same results and nothing done. Why not have common sense take a shot at running things?
If he did then the American justice system will surely punish him for it and you won’t have to worry about Trump anymore!
Two thirds of the supreme court judges are republican, one third appointed by Trump himself. Also he could likely just pardon himself if he wins. So I wouldn’t bet on it
Edit:
People were screaming about the coup shit in 2016 and it didn’t happen. The same joke won’t work again.
If people forcefully entering the capitol and claiming Trump is still the president is not a coup attempt then what do you think one looks like?
Also “the democracy didn’t collapse the first time so what could go wrong the second time?” Is not that strong of an argument
It’s kind of true. Anyone who can see the bigger picture realize that voting in America is little more than a false dichotomy. Both parties have the exact same interests, with the republicans being more open about what they want and the democrats playing more social justice lip service.
They propose different legislation. Thus different interests. Wow. Such challenge to prove this wrong.
Exact same, in case you’re not that fast, means indistinguishable in all regards. The fact that they propose different legislation that have different effects means that statement is false. Congrats! Logic!
If you didn’t want to sound dumb you should try a more nuanced position.
I don’t like him, but that’s clearly not true because Gavin Newsom has been running for 2028 for months now. Why do you think he just debated DeSantis and praised Biden?
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