Workers: DO NOT OVERWORK YOURSELF to avoid getting laid off.
You’re damaging your life and health.
Your employer doesn’t actually notice (no, really, they don’t.)
Your behavior enables future mismanagement of resources.
When layoffs come, you’re gonna get laid off anyway.
Remember that a company’s job is to extract maximum work from you for minimum pay, so your job is to extract maximum pay for minimum work. Somewhere in the middle, both parties find an equilibrium that they agree on. Do not voluntarily modify your side of the bargain to your detriment.
@drahardja yes.
I learnt this lesson straight out of uni, working my 'dream job' at Lotus & got laid off within a year. It hurt.
Since then I only work if I'm being paid. I don't do free overtime or let a job get to me. That's nearly 25 years ago(!) and if it's hurt my career then I haven't noticed.
Now I'm working for myself it's harder to be so strict but it's a different deal!
@drahardja you're not wrong but this isn't the reality for all workers. For many easily replaceable workers, management does notice. The calculus for many workers is work overtime or be fired tomorrow, or the next day, not "when layoffs hit".
That's precisely why we need unions and other similar organizations.
@drahardja At my previous job last year, the company laid off half the people there including me. I just remember how they laid off two of the most insanely hard working people there who did early morning, weekend, and evening work. For the entire life of the co! Company DNGAF.
Take care of yourselves, folks, and do the things outside of work you want to do. Tell your manager no, sorry, that deadline isn’t realistic, but “you’ll do your best” and then keep your normal routine. :3
@drahardja the one thing i figured out was: get to know your coworkers, put in the effort to socialize, build connections, etc, it may not protect your job but it might help secure it a little bit or failing that keep some potential leads on new jobs open plus you get to have additional friends which is good
@drahardja It depends on the discretion of the employer and there's too much room for employer discretion--that's more to the point, I think. Some are good guys you want to go the extra mile for, and some are the ones who ask more out of you and when you give, they make that the basic expectation from that point forward. Quoting a Disney song: "Go up and clean the attic then go down and do the cellar--you can do them both together Cinderella"
@claralistensprechen3rd I think a good employer would ask you to do more in exchange for extra compensation, and also happily take “no” for an answer.
Remember that a project that misses its deadline is a management (i.e. employer) error, not a worker error. The worker should not be expected to make up for it.
@drahardja I’m really sorry for the work experience you’ve had in your life but myself it’s not what I’ve experienced except maybe twice in my career and when I have , I made to get out of those situations. I’d really love to have a discussion with you on this subject because in my mind to suggest to only give the minimum will only make us even worse than what we’re already are as a society. I’m not suggesting to work 20 extra hours for free when you’re paid for 40 let’s say. Effort is noticed
@drahardja
I used to do this out of devotion to my employer (state government and education fields). I also rationalized that I was gaining skills that would get me paid better and treated better. Didn't really work that way.
@drahardja Ain't that the truth. Not just applicable in companies. It's even more the case in the public sector. I know. It happened to me. Left at 49 with my physical and mental health broken.
@drahardja
I agree that agreements should be mutual.
Well run companies benefit from both sides doing more than minimum.
In a healthy, creative, flourishing environment, there's mutuality.
The whole reason we have companies, and not just individual craftsmen, is collaboration.
Yes, this absolutely flows both ways, but if either side goes cold turkey, it doesn't flow at all, and the whole thing dies. (It might just not know it's dead.)
@drahardja as a recently laid off person this definitely tracks with my experience. Very often the person(s) making the decisions can’t possibly have an understanding of what everyone is doing. You giving them 12 or 15 more hours every week isn’t going to do much for you.
@drahardja I agree of course, and everyone has different boundaries and needs, but doesn't that mindset about work in general lead to even more toxicity and burnout? Overwork is one cause of burnout, but so is lack of meaning or motivation.
@drahardja Agree with that; to clarify, I mean the mindset "your job is to extract maximum pay for minimum work." That's a fairly reductionist way of looking at work overall.
Work is not simply amount of time for money. And there are many factors that contribute to burnout other than simply which company you work for.
@trisweb > That's a fairly reductionist way of looking at work overall.
I think you missed the first part of that sentence. I said: “a company’s job is to extract maximum work from you for minimum pay, SO your job is to extract maximum pay for minimum work.”
A for-profit company’s foundational reason for existence is the extraction of profit, including from its employees. It’s appropriate to be counter-extractive under such an arrangement.
There are other forms of collective work that is not primarily focused on profit, and you can deal with them using a different framework. But as long as you are dealing with a for-profit (and especially, publicly-traded) company, a pragmatic understanding that extraction is a core part of the relationship is important.
@drahardja I'd say that's good advice even if it's not so you don't get laid off. Overworking sets a baseline that others, or maybe yourself in five years when you have a family or are caring for someone, will be held to.
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