Numbeo is the world’s largest cost-of-living and quality-of-life database using crowd-sourced data. Comparing cities is interesting. Many US cities cost more to live in than European cities, but not at the percentage difference in total compensation. US Americans are still ahead.
@Jeremiah I moved from the US to Germany and took a 25% pay cut, net and gross. Not only am I still putting almost the same amount into my savings every month, I no longer need to pay for expenses like a car or emergency medical savings account (HSA) to keep from going bankrupt in a medical emergency. I'm also finally able to afford to shop for real estate for a home to call mine, which I never could in the States.
Cost of living plays a HUGE part of this equation. I feel more financially affluent now than I ever have.
@Jeremiah I also have my company investing way more in my benefits than I ever had in the US, from retirement to PTO to health benefits. Whether legally required or not, companies here invest way more in their employees than American companies do.
@secbox I also took a pay cut moving from US to Sverige, but am much happier overall. I still think it’s unfair to compensate people less based on where they live.
@Jeremiah IMHO, numbers like this don’t say much unless also accounting for cost of living. That includes not just the price for housing, food, etc.. but also social security systems, or lack thereof.
@anderseknert@Jeremiah yes, i’d assume the same? that being in the US requires so much more cash to just exist. makes it hard to compare straight off. however, living in EU and working for a US company with US salary though… 😎
i’d be more interested in up-to-date salary comparisons in Sweden.
Why should a developer accept less total compensation for their labor because they pay less for housing? Unless the employer only does business in the same market as the employee, cost-of-living is an excuse to pay Europeans less for the value they create in order to maximize a profit margin on global revenue.
@Jeremiah@brookie and you could just as well ask why they should accept paying €40 for lunch in Switzerland when they can get it for €10 in Sweden? :)
Of course companies are going to try and maximize their profit margin. Cost of living is taken into account as you can’t reasonably hire people in regions where they can’t afford to reside given the salary offered.
I’m not saying I love it, it’s just.. capitalism. It’s got little to do with whether you’re a developer or not.
@anderseknert@brookie A person in Zurich cannot obtain lunch from Stockholm. Food has a physical limitation labor doesn’t. 😜
I agree with you on why companies do it. I just don’t think it’s ethical.
If a company decides it can afford someone in an area with a higher cost of living, it can afford it. Where the person sleeps should not matter. Companies paying people less than what people doing the same job cost in the primary market of their customers is exploitative capitalism.
@anderseknert@brookie If the total compensation differences were limited to cost-of-living percentages, it would not be exploitative. I am simply encouraging European developers to know and demand their worth. 😃
There is quite a bit of local statistics available. SCB (Statistical Central Bureau) have this data, and also many unions will have domain specific data on their members.
The below link is for the IT industry in Sweden. For many of us, I think the overall quality of life is more important than the nominal compensation figures.
@airwhale@anderseknert@brookie I agree quality of life is more important than total compensation. I would need more than $500k total comp to even consider moving back to the US. 🤣
But seriously, I think US companies employing Europeans paying any less beyond cost-of-living differences are committing exploitative capitalism and European engineers should negotiate harder.
@airwhale@anderseknert@Jeremiah cool! as an aside, the swedish job titles are always so … precise and opaque. "am i a "mjukvaruutvecklare" or am i in fact a "mjukvaruingenjör"?😏
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