ryan,
@ryan@bemrose.social avatar

If you use the word "migrants" to describe the illegal aliens overwhelmingly invading America at the behest of the Biden regime, you are giving in to the communist-left's fallacy of equivocation.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/cgi-bin/uy/webpages.cgi?/logicalfallacies/Definist-Fallacy

"Illegal" is a much more accurate term for how the people got here... "But SirBemrose," they say, "people aren't illegal"

Good point. People aren't illegal. They just do an illegal thing when they enter the country illegally. People who commit illegal acts are criminals. So maybe we start calling them what they are: "Criminal aliens"

wjmaggos,
@wjmaggos@liberal.city avatar

@ryan

the Biden regime is communist-left? talk about definition fallacy.

everybody wants less illegal immigration, but some of us also have other concerns. I think we all also think some things shouldn't be crimes or should be dealt with differently. so we end up objecting to using language (the kind commonly seen as derogatory) for groups that we accept are doing wrong, but not something very wrong. not murder etc. many then also use these terms racially w/o knowing someone's actual status.

EnnaComa,

@wjmaggos @ryan right, this leads to "minor attracted persons" in place of child molester. Generationally softening the language to take away meaning from severity of an action because you don't think its "that bad" and "derogatory" is the exact type of chickenshit attitude that blocks real solutions to real problems.

wjmaggos,
@wjmaggos@liberal.city avatar

@EnnaComa @ryan

if the language is less clear, sure. but not if it's just less divisive. that will encourage more people to work towards compromises. but I don't know, I have a bigger problem with alien than illegal immigrant.

Lavaearth,
@Lavaearth@poa.st avatar

@wjmaggos @EnnaComa @ryan The correct term for millions getting into a country legally or not is "invaders".

wjmaggos,
@wjmaggos@liberal.city avatar

@Lavaearth @ryan @EnnaComa

then the US has been constantly invaded since at least the 1850s, without even asking native Americans what they think about it.

Lavaearth,
@Lavaearth@poa.st avatar

@wjmaggos @ryan @EnnaComa And the native americans have been invading and murdering each other before that.

Besides how do you help the 3rd world solve its problems by having them invading in mass and sinking the 1st world?

Btw: I am brazilian. The northeast of my country is the poorest part of it and has been sending migrants to other parts of the country for decades.

Now, the northeast is still poor and bad and the rest of the country has gigantic favelas, drug lords, mafias and crackheads wandering the streets.

wjmaggos,
@wjmaggos@liberal.city avatar

@Lavaearth @ryan @EnnaComa

I am not for open borders. I am for trying to find solutions that work the best for everyone involved. I think a large part of why the US has easier immigration is because business interests want that to keep labor costs low. I think part of solving the immigration issue is working internationally to solve the issues that drive people to leave other countries. I'd rather US spend money on that than war that drives more immigration.

EnnaComa,

@wjmaggos @ryan the cause for the crime doesn't make it less of a offense. Nobody leaves the bar with the intent to get in a car crash, regardless if its a celebration or an addiction.
The situations where the punishment doesn't fit the crime exist but you don't soften the language. That's manipulative.

wjmaggos,
@wjmaggos@liberal.city avatar

@EnnaComa @ryan

imagine you're working to reduce DWI accidents but you demand that everybody calls them drunks. I don't see how that helps.

all language is manipulative.

EnnaComa,

@wjmaggos @ryan imagine wanting to reduce ass fucking infants and decide the best way is to call it "a non consensual no no" so rapists don't avoid seeking help. A drunk is a specific addict, like a crackhead, methhead, pothead, gambler, smoker. The average person is addicted to caffine and phones. Calling a drunk an addict is softballing a serious issue. When you cross the line into being a drunk its a wakeup call by being called one. Nobody seeks help for this shit until they have a close call, or hit bottom. All the education, all the signs, all the family/friends concerns don't do anything unless the person realizes, and wants help. Good luck convincing them they're in the wrong when they just have a socially watered down condition like "an addiction"

wjmaggos,
@wjmaggos@liberal.city avatar

@EnnaComa @ryan

people with years sober call it an addiction and don't need you calling them a drunk. if you're in a relationship with someone and want to call them a drunk hoping they'll then seek help, awesome. that's not what we were talking about. do you go around looking for people who might be illegal immigrants and say unless you can prove you are not, I will round up a posse to call you illegal until you leave? I thought we were talking about how to discuss an issue to achieve change.

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