@DrALJONES Whatever Biden says, you only have to look at what he does to see the real man. He's provided an endless stream of weapons to a genocidal regime in contravention of numerous US laws. He's operated the US airdrop effort at a PR level which has never exceeded 4 airplanes making one trip in a day when we have 600. It's PR, not real relief.
He's continued to allow the GSA to auction off millions of MREs and Humanitarian Daily Rations rather than stick them on a boat to Cyprus.
@DrALJONES If people want to know why I refuse to vote for Biden, it is that he is giving full bodied support to a genocide while trying to manage the PR fallout in a way that shows contempt for the voters.
Turns out I'm a single issue voter and that issue is material support for genocide.
A single-issue vote is not a presidential vote. Please do consider other issues. Or even on this one, do you believe Trump would do better—and still be worth the damage?
@WayneKoberstein@DrALJONES Sorry, to me genocide is a moral absolute. I won't support a US president who actively abets one. This is an absolute evil and I can't hold my nose and play the lesser of two evils game on this one.
@WayneKoberstein@Infoseepage@DrALJONES Not voting for one reprehensible candidate does not mean you are voting for the other reprehensible candidate. It's up to every incumbent to choose policies that can be supported if they want to be re-elected: it's not the voter's responsibility to change their values.
If the consequence of the Biden administration's inability to refrain from genocide is that another genocidal candidate is elected, there is a clear responsible party (and it's not me)
@pleaseclap@WayneKoberstein@DrALJONES Yup, I won't be voting for Trump, but I won't be voting for Biden either. I sent money to 8-10 D candidates in the last election cycle. Probably won't be sending any this time. I'll be making more donations to UN RWA instead.
@Infoseepage@DrALJONES@WayneKoberstein@pleaseclap Trump supports Israel. Trump moved the American embassy to where they wanted it to be. Senior republicans have called for Palestine to be nuked. This is who you are helping; you’re no friend of Palestine.
@BenAveling@DrALJONES@WayneKoberstein@pleaseclap And what does Palestine look like 8 months from now under Biden? He's clearly been willing to give Israel a free hand (and the bombs) to turn Gaza into an utter hell-scape. Half of the overall buildings in Gaza were destroyed or damaged according to the last satellite survey I saw.
@BenAveling@DrALJONES@WayneKoberstein@pleaseclap You've got the majority of the population shoved up against the Egyptian border in a city where 25+% of the buildings have been destroyed. The population in Rafah is twice the density of the Warsaw Ghetto and Netanyahu wants to move in with ground troops and is clearly not averse to lobbing in a mk84 bomb once in a while to kill a few hundred people.
@BenAveling@DrALJONES@WayneKoberstein@pleaseclap So far the death toll among Palestinians is at 33k+ with 75k+ wounded and nobody is at all certain how many people lay dead under collapsed buildings. At least 1/25th of the population of Gaza is already a casualty and several dozen children have already starved to death and Biden refuses to take a hard line on preventing mass starvation.
@BenAveling@DrALJONES@WayneKoberstein@pleaseclap Biden has given and continues to give Israel full bodied material support to Israel, including tens of thousands of mk84 and mk82 unguided bombs, which are indiscriminate both in their point of impact (without guidance add-ons which to public knowledge been supplied in much smaller numbers) and in their radius of lethality. The mk84 can kill people a quarter mile away from impact.
@BenAveling@DrALJONES@WayneKoberstein@pleaseclap Trump very well might be somehow worse for the Palestinians, but Biden is already a complete genocidal disaster. I won't vote for that. I won't check a box saying I endorse Biden and what he's done. He's lost me completely an irrevocably for his callously indifferent attitude toward human life.
@BenAveling@DrALJONES@WayneKoberstein@pleaseclap Sorry, I'm not playing the lesser of two evils game when Biden's evils have escalated to this level. Genocide is an absolute evil. There is no greater human crime and Biden is aiding and abetting it. It's like watching a crazed gunman mow down people in the street, see him run out of bullets and then walk up to him to hand him another clip. That is what Biden is doing. He's a war criminal, period and I won't sign my name to that in any way.
@Infoseepage Even if we accept your position, the other guy is worse; it's like saying, this is a choice between some genocide, and more genocide, so I'm going to choose more genocide.
It's given the choice between some genocide and more genocide, I don't have to support either and I'm not going to
Biden doesn't have to be the candidate of Genocide, and you don't have to be okay with him choosing to be the candidate of Genocide. If you are okay with supporting genocide, then you are a genocidal person whose opinion I would be foolish to value
@pleaseclap
This isn't a choice between genocide and not-genocide. This is a choice between weak-opposition-to-genocide and active-support-for-genocide.
And you're currently helping team active-support.
@BenAveling@Infoseepage@DrALJONES@WayneKoberstein I'm not helping team "active support" by refusing to endorse team "weak-opposition-to-genocide", because team "weak-opposition-to-genocide" is actually team "active support"
You're correct: it's not a choice between genocide and not genocide, for me, a voter. It's a choice between genocide and genocide
The only person who can change that is Biden, and he's decided not to. And you've decided that's fine with you.
@pleaseclap@BenAveling@DrALJONES@WayneKoberstein My preference is for Biden and his advisors to wake up and realize they've hemorrhaged enough support that they're not going to win in November and for him to withdraw in favor of another candidate. There are a wealth of Democrats I'd vote for, but not Biden, not after what he's done.
@Infoseepage Deciding that you won't vote while America is tolerating genocide somewhere in the world means deciding that you'll never get to vote again. Does that look like a winning chess move to you?
@BenAveling@Infoseepage@DrALJONES@WayneKoberstein Does bad faith argumentation feel like a winning chess move to you? Or would you like to further alienate people who would have helped your team win? If winning is so important to you, go talk to your boi
@pleaseclap You'll support Biden if America takes a stronger stance against genocide in Palestine, even if America continues supporting genocide elsewhere in the world?
Who was the last president you voted for? @Infoseepage@DrALJONES@WayneKoberstein
You can abandon that hypothetical and slander: it's a waste of time. I haven't addressed it, and I won't. You're choosing to excuse and maintain a real genocidal president right now, by harassing people with a righteous and moral disagreement, rather than protesting the policy and demanding change. You are an enthusiastic supporter of genocide.
@BenAveling@pleaseclap@DrALJONES@WayneKoberstein I see this sort of reaction a lot, these accusations that people who refuse to vote for Biden this go around due to his support of genocide are actually Republicans, Russian trolls or such. They refuse to believe that Biden has actually deeply alienated a sizable minority of his own party.
@Infoseepage@BenAveling@DrALJONES@WayneKoberstein It's bullying and cowardice. Ben doesn't want to do the hard thing and stand up for a cause: he wants to guilt people into falling in line. As if it's that easy.
@WayneKoberstein@Infoseepage@DrALJONES the "Trump would be worse" argument is singularly ineffective when the current government is guilty of complicity in genocide.
Folks who want people to vote for Biden really have to turn it around and ask what Biden needs to do to distance himself enough from genocide to make him palatable to vote for.
If you keep on telling people they have to vote for genocide, you'll just keep on losing people.
@DrALJONES@WayneKoberstein The Democrats deserved a better candidate than Joe Biden. A lot of people voted "not Trump" in 2020. That was my vote too. I held my nose and voted Biden, even though he was my sixth choice among the Democratic field.
@DrALJONES@WayneKoberstein There should have been a real primary contest for 2024. Age aside, I would have far rather voted for Warren or Sanders this time around. I would have gone for Pete Buttigieg or Beto or just about anyone else over a 2nd Biden term.
I didn't think Biden was going to be a good POTUS. I didn't think he would be a good repudiator of Trumpism, and I've been right. His administration has been a continual further slide towards the abyss.
@DrALJONES@WayneKoberstein@Infoseepage Fascism cant win against direct democracy without a state, which might be what you mean by robust democracy, but fascism can win against any liberal bourgeois democracy unfortunately.
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