buermann,
@buermann@mastodon.social avatar

Israeli whistleblowers from the Sde Teiman concentration camp told CNN how Israeli doctors "amputated prisoners’ limbs due to injuries sustained from constant handcuffing; of medical procedures sometimes performed by underqualified medics earning it a reputation for being “a paradise for interns”; and where the air is filled with the smell of neglected wounds left to rot."

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-teiman-detention-whistleblowers-intl-cmd

buermann,
@buermann@mastodon.social avatar

"For Palestinians who repeatedly breached the prohibition on speaking and moving, the punishment became more severe. Israeli guards would sometimes take a prisoner to an area outside the enclosure and beat him aggressively, according to two whistleblowers and al-Ran. A whistleblower who worked as a guard said he saw a man emerge from a beating with his teeth, and some bones, apparently broken."

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-teiman-detention-whistleblowers-intl-cmd

buermann,
@buermann@mastodon.social avatar

Another whistleblower said he was ordered to perform medical procedures on the Palestinian detainees for which he was not qualified.

“I was asked to learn how to do things on the patients, performing minor medical procedures that are totally outside my expertise,” he said, adding that this was frequently done without anesthesia.

“If they complained about pain, they would be given paracetamol,” he said, using another name for acetaminophen.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-teiman-detention-whistleblowers-intl-cmd

Blinxeto,
@Blinxeto@mastodon.social avatar

@buermann

How is this not like the NAZIS?

glitzersachen,

@Blinxeto @buermann

In as far as these a "only" torture camps and death is just collateral damage. In Auschwitz the very goal was mass murder.

It's different, but doesn't make a difference WRT culpability of the guard and the general moral reprehensibility.

I would not want to diminish the enormity of the Holocaust by comparing it with a single (or handful) of camps operated by one state.

Regardless, moral depravity begins a long distance before a full holocaust (...)

glitzersachen,

@Blinxeto @buermann

(...) X is not a Nazi is a very poor defense, actually.

Blinxeto,
@Blinxeto@mastodon.social avatar

@buermann

How patriotic! Netanyahu has brought the IDF to the level of the Geheime Staatspolizei.

glitzersachen,

@Blinxeto @buermann

This comparison in turn, unfortunately, can be made and be argued to be valid. As can be done with the CIA and Homeland Security in a certain different state.

glitzersachen,

@Blinxeto @buermann

I am so sick of this all.

Blinxeto,
@Blinxeto@mastodon.social avatar

@glitzersachen @buermann

I think we can all agree, even the torturer, that these horrors don’t become “good” no matter who practices them.

glitzersachen,

@Blinxeto @buermann

"all agree, even the torturer" => I am not so sure here. I have been reading a lot on the third Reich (I am German, so it was obvious to start there), some on the Pinochet regime, a fair bit on the Gulag and some on Guantanamo.

The mind of the torturer is still a mystery to me. One explanation is, that not all torturers are alike, but it takes a mixture to make a "successful" torture regime.

glitzersachen,

@Blinxeto @buermann

I am pretty sure there are zealots who really think they're doing a good thing by "sticking it" to the enemy (who is sub-human to them). Others just lack affect and empathy and do "as they are told".

Then there are the sadists ...

Though in total, I am pretty sure the torturer who knows that "this is not good" and is just forced by circumstances to go with it, is a pretty rare animal.On average, torturers are convinced they need to do this.

Blinxeto,
@Blinxeto@mastodon.social avatar

@glitzersachen @buermann

They wouldn’t what they do if it was right, moral or effective.

glitzersachen,

@Blinxeto @buermann

The point is, I think, that they consider it either right or they are sociopaths (no conscience) and consider it advantageous to themselves (they are sadists or they like the status or the money).

If you ask why a torturer does what they do, the question what this is (objectively) is irrelevant. Only what it means to them gives any insight to their motives.

GhostOnTheHalfShell,
@GhostOnTheHalfShell@masto.ai avatar

@buermann

The world will remember Israel for this. Always.

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