I mean if the planet goes then car culture also goes. 🤦🏻♀️
Mad Max is a utopia compared to the unlivable mess we're heading towards unless we pull the breaks.
@Sandra@alex Yes, I believe this is the point of degrowth.
Car culture will end, relatively soon. The question is whether it will take the biosphere and human civilization with it, or whether we will manage to wind down cars & car infrastructure in a just transition before they do too much damage.
Right. The time for a soft and just landing woulda been in the 1960s or even the 1980s (or, ideally, in 1896 when we were first thinking about this stuff). We didn’t, so now we’ve got to slam the brakes a li’l harder. 2023 broke new records in fossil fuel extraction & burning; we’re going in the wrong direction. 😭
@Sandra It may be too late for a soft landing, but it's never too late to demand justice.
What's the alternative to climate justice? Eco-fascism, where billions are sacrificed so the master race can inherit the Earth? That might be used as a rhetorical device, but I no longer believe eco-fascism will ever be a major force. Basically all real-world fascists seem to be doubling down on climate denial, and no matter how they justify mass murder, I don't think any will ever take real climate action
No, fuck the self-proclaimed “master race”, that’s not what I’m going for here. As you say, the brownshirts are gasoline populists and climate deniers or delayists. Let’s keep fighting fascism.
The label “climate justice” is broad and a lot of the stuff under that label is cool but some of it’s another form of delayism.
Unfair distribution of resources and tasks is wrong and evil, but it has been a problem for ages; it predates recorded history (even some animals do it) and is now the worst it has ever been, but I’m never giving up on trying to fix that. Another world is possible.
So far, so much in agreement. When I criticize parts of what’s put forward under the climate justice banner, I only mean to say this:
Holding the fate of world hostage until we’ve solved a problem that humanity hasn’t been able to solve for thousands of years even though we’ve thrown brains, blood, guns and love at it isn’t exactly something I’m sympathetic to now that we’re this close to the edge or possibly over it already.
We didn’t tie regulating freons to a six-hour workweek. We didn’t connect fixing the Y2K bug to equalizing bank accounts. My number one goal is averting doomsday. If that means we have to end up with 10000 years of Mikael Wiehe lyrics then I can live with that if we saved the planet. Anyone pulling the breaks on averting the crisis from either side of the proverbial aisle, whether they’re Exxon or Bakunin, needs to sober up and start living their life right. When a stick destroys the Earth, we’re not much happier if it’s called the people’s stick.
Now for the good news. The same thought virus that created the climate crisis also exacerbated social injustice: capitalism. One way or another, this is the end of the self-proclaimed “laissez-faire” systems of unchecked exploitation. Telemachus has sneezed one too many times. Putting the kibosh on capitalism to save the trees is probably best done through regulatory frameworks that we can also use for justice, and vice versa. So there can be a common path forward here.
@Sandra I mostly agree. But by what mechanism will you build the political power necessary to end capitalism, and take other drastic action to save civilization & the biosphere?
You seem to argue a narrow focus is necessary, only fix GHG emissions. But CFCs only affected fridges/AC, Y2K only computers (before everything was computers).
Successfully addressing the climate crisis requires changing almost everything about our culture. A broad coalition is required to mobilize all of society.
@Sandra What we have here is a strategic question, an empirical question: Are we more likely to succeed politically by fixing only one thing, or by fixing many things?
I would argue that if we have to change everything anyway, we might as well change it for the better. And then you have ways to convince people who don't understand how they are being affected by the climate crisis (yes, of course they are affected already) to sign on to your ambitious program: solidarity with their struggles.
@Sandra CFCs and Y2K could be effectively addressed by experts working in their fields, backed by government policy. The general public didn't need to do anything, or know or understand anything.
The climate crisis requires an informed & engaged public, which is a heavy lift. How do you motivate them? Fear might get people involved (worked for me), but it won't keep the movement going in the long run; and we'll be dealing with climate change for the rest of our lives. How do you give them hope?
@Sandra So when I say "climate justice", I'm not just talking about what is ethically the right thing to do. I'm talking strategically, how do you get people to sign up for completely re-imagining society and rebuilding it from the ground up, to eliminate fossil fuels and capitalism? That's a lot of work!
I think some sort of climate justice framing is the only way to build the mass movement that can succeed at this daunting task at this late date.
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