sarah,
@sarah@phpc.social avatar

PHP needs a code of conduct for the project itself. Is there anyone willing to push for an RFC to add one with me?

kboyd,
@kboyd@phpc.social avatar

@sarah I'm not in a headspace where i can contribute to side projects at the moment, but I do think a CoC would be great. I saw how things went last time around & was not pleased with how some folks reacted to the idea, so I want to speak up and offer a clear thumbs up this time. :)

heiglandreas,
@heiglandreas@phpc.social avatar

@sarah Yes!

There were some attempts in the past but internals was ... how do I put that politely ... showing that it needed one while telling everyone that it didn't need one?

But perhaps it is time for a new attempt.

Thoughs, @ramsey, @Crell, @pronskiy and whoever else has ideas or opinions?

derickr,
@derickr@phpc.social avatar

@heiglandreas @sarah @ramsey @Crell @pronskiy I think I have repos with the original work from 8ish years ago. Some of the detractors haven't been seen since then... So maybe better success this time. I'll chase them down when I get home.

sarah,
@sarah@phpc.social avatar

@derickr sadly I was a detractor of the CoC last time. I see it’s value now. I would strongly support it./cc @heiglandreas @ramsey @Crell @pronskiy

maccath,
@maccath@phpc.social avatar

@sarah I've a question, but don't feel obligated to answer.

I've heard other trans women describe experiences after transitioning that they had never noticed or experienced before. Things that minorities in tech have been talking about for a long time. Things that many cis white men just aren't aware of - to the point of being dismissive. "I don't see it so it must not happen here."

I'm wondering if you've had similar experiences as a trans woman, and this has influenced your current views?

sarah,
@sarah@phpc.social avatar

@maccath It most certainly has. I've experienced colleagues dismissing my perspective or taking credit for my ideas. I've experienced discrimination. I've experienced many things that I assumed didn't happen but they do.

It has shaped my viewpoint. I'm sorry for the times that I made comments or had views that were harmful.

maccath,
@maccath@phpc.social avatar

@sarah thanks for being so open! It really is fascinating how differently a person is viewed based on such arbitrary things as gender expression. Congrats on being able to live as your authentic self - I'm sorry that being a woman isn't easy. People like to claim 'things are better now', but they're not, really. :( It's tiring to have to stand up for yourself when the industry seems intent on dragging you down. Women that remain in tech this long are truly some of the most determined humans.

maccath,
@maccath@phpc.social avatar

@sarah We can't do this on our own. We need all the support we can get. So yes, a CoC would be great. It's not a silver bullet but it shows that the project cares about what we say.

derickr,
@derickr@phpc.social avatar

@sarah @heiglandreas @ramsey @Crell @pronskiy The repo I have is: https://github.com/derickr/php-community-health — let me know if it makes sense to transfer it to you.

Crell,
@Crell@phpc.social avatar

@heiglandreas @sarah @ramsey @pronskiy I'm pro-CoC in general, though the specifics matter. A bad CoC is worse than no CoC.

My issue is that every time I've tried to propose a CoC in the past for FIG, I got sealioned by "well why aren't you just using Contributor Covenant?" as the only feedback, and "I dislike CC v1 for $reasons" wasn't a sufficient explanation.

So yeah, I support a CoC for both Internals and FIG, but depends on details, and I will not be the main sponsor.

sarah,
@sarah@phpc.social avatar

@Crell so I take it you’re not going to support CC as the CoC? @heiglandreas @ramsey @pronskiy

Crell,
@Crell@phpc.social avatar

@sarah @heiglandreas @ramsey @pronskiy v1, no. v2, I'd have to look at it again to see if I like it. It's been a while.

My repos all use the Code Compact as a CoC, which is what I'd proposed for FIG. Some felt it was too wishy washy, though. (I liked that it was mostly "do this" rather than "don't do this.")

http://codemanifesto.com/

maccath,
@maccath@phpc.social avatar

@Crell looks like their website has been subjected to some gross spam/xss that appears underneath the manifesto and somewhat taints its message...

Alister,
@Alister@mastodon.cloud avatar

@maccath @Crell The last time I saw something like that was back in 2011, and the site was being uploaded via a hacked FTP (browser plugin) client, with the homepage edited/appended to on the fly as it was uploaded to add the extra JS/links.
These days it could also be a hacked .js script include.

Alister,
@Alister@mastodon.cloud avatar

@maccath @Crell I found another couple of sites on the same host, and that's got the same spam links added. I think the entire server/Cpanel has been compromised.

Crell,
@Crell@phpc.social avatar

@maccath Oh geez. I don't know if the maintainer is even active anymore, but I'll leave an issue on the GitHub repo just in case.

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