a megathread for developments on Reddit and with third-party Reddit apps

just so this doesn't overwhelm our front page too much, i think now's a good time to start consolidating discussions. existing threads will be kept up, but unless a big update comes let's try to keep what's happening in this thread instead of across 10.

developments to this point:

The Verge is on it as usual, also--here's their latest coverage (h/t @dirtmayor):

myk,

The active mod team of r/videos (nearly 27M subscribers) has agreed that their shutdown will now be permanent. https://reddit.com/r/videos/comments/145vns0/the_future_of_rvideos/

In a tildes post (I’m riding a lot of horses right now) one of the mods said:

I know this is likely a symbolic gesture because I'm fairly confident reddit will just kick us out and bring the subreddit back up, but after being on the mod team for over a decade its going to be interesting to see how things even function if they decide to take that route.

lynny,
@lynny@lemmy.world avatar

No way Reddit is going to be able to replace so many mods on so many subs that deal with so many millions of users. They can try, but that doesn't mean it will work.

mortuum,

Apparently they'll be laying off about 90 workers (5%) whilst also lowering the amount of people they will hire. So, less staff to begin with. Less mods. It's going to be a shitshow. The admins don't even deal with moderation, really. Reporting is outsourced to their "Anti Evil Operations" team. So wtf are they going to do? I can't wait to see the downfall.

At this point, after that poor excuse of an AMA, their reputation is tanked.

JackFromWisconsin,
@JackFromWisconsin@midwest.social avatar

They'll appoint new mods. New mods that don't have any experience or any professionalism. New mods that may not even be the age of majority yet. It's a dumpster fire waiting to happen.

myk,

Yes I was totally blown away when I saw how large that sub is. It’s incredible to see Reddit losing people with that much experience of managing and growing massive communities, but the board’s focus right is only on selling existing content to AI bros so they probably don’t care that much at the moment.

ulu_mulu,
@ulu_mulu@lemmy.world avatar

TechCrunch: Reddit CEO doubles down on attack on Apollo developer in drama-filled AMA

TopHat,

It's simply disappointing to see the disaster for the AMA. Saddens me to see Reddit go down like this. At least we got the Lemmy-proxy being a community project. Would love to still use Infinity as my main "reddit" browsing app, after all.

noob_dragon,

Wow, RedReader somehow managed to get spared due to its accessibility features. Was not on my bingo card at all. I guess somehow I can still manage to use Reddit completely ad free, but who knows for how long. Even better, the RedReader dev might have plans to integrate Lemmy into it.

mortuum,

I don't know how RedReader will survive without monetisation, either since the conditions are they are "non-commercial". It's such bullshit and just a ploy to further profit off free labour.

Carcel,
@Carcel@lemmy.ml avatar

RedReader has never been monetized. They don't have servers to support and distribute for free on f-droid and the play store. It's a small open source project and an influx of users won't change costs for them. The app acts purely as a reddit client for each user and doesn't need a go between server. They accept donations through Patreon and you can find the link on their GitHub repo.

In the case that reddit eventually cuts off their api access too, they're planning on adding support for Lemmy, HackerNews, Tildes and RSS in a future refactor but that's probably not any time soon.

mortuum,

TIL! Thanks for the explanation!

monsterlynn,

I just don't get how a site based on freely produced content thst employs volunteer mods can actually monetise.

That part just gets me. The site has nothing without the users and the users have nothing without the mods.

FriendlyFusion,

They’re taking us all for granted. They are going to embarrass themselves if they go public

grizzzlay,

Let ‘em, we’ll share content here.

argv_minus_one,

Hopefully my old popcorn machine still works. I'm going to need it.

Hamartiogonic,
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

It’s because of the contract every user has with Reddit. It’s that legal document nobody ever reads.

argv_minus_one,

That legal document isn't worth the pixels it's drawn on. As soon as the moderators leave Reddit en masse, spammers move in, Reddit goes belly up, and the contract won't change that in the slightest.

The contract's entire validity with moderators is questionable, by the way, seeing as how there isn't any meaningful consideration. Subreddit moderators contribute to Reddit and receive essentially nothing in exchange. For ordinary users, one could argue that you agree to do the things in the contract in exchange for access to and participation in all the content and community on Reddit, but that argument doesn't work for moderators.

yyyesss,

The thing is, they have operating costs. I'm sure it's a boatload of money as well, given the size and scope of Reddit. Almost all startups run at a loss. And then continue to do so long past when they're a "startup". The money they "make" is from rounds of investors who believe they will find a way to make money in the future. Eventually investors get restless and demand that they find a way to monetize so they can recoup. Without those investors money, the site will come crashing as soon as they miss some critical payments for stuff that keep the site up. I'm absolutely sure that's what we're seeing. I think either way, its time has come.

Pinch the users to try to keep it alive for a little bit more. Don't pinch the users and it dies in a grinding halt when they miss some key payments.

toothpaste_sandwich,

We don't know if that's the case, though...

yyyesss,

You're right, we don't know for sure. But it's a good bet. I've been in tech a while.

toothpaste_sandwich,

Still, if they'd only communicate this and then use it as a reason for some other strategies for making money (without killing all user choice i.e. 3rd party apps), that would be a much more sympathetic way of approaching the issue.

yyyesss,

100% agree with you.

DannySpud,

There used to be a daily progress bar on the front page of Reddit to show if the sales of Reddit Gold that day were enough to pay for that day's worth of server usage. I recall it usually hitting over 100%.

keropoktasen,

They can always work together with platform developers to make profits. Yet they're killing the very platform that bring traffics to the site. I can only see greediness here.

maegul,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

So realistically, what would a sustainable business model be for something like Reddit?

Something like lemmy or a fediverse platform is going to rely on donations and community support. In the case of mastodon, for example, it’s been shown to work well enough for sustainable operations. For those willing to work on something worthwhile for lower salary, it is potentially a great gig. In a commercial context though, it’s basically a subscription based business model.

If we’re to recover from this ad driven data tracking economy, subscriptions seem like a healthy thing for businesses to adopt.

Reddit may have already signed their deals with the devil. But generally, the point of the fediverse is to escape this corporate manipulation of our basic communications in the internet, and it’s still interesting to ask what profitable but sustainable operations can look like.

TeaEarlGrayHot,

I think that federation will help Lemmy a ton--there will be a lot of small, cheap servers rather than a single extremely expensive one!

maegul,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Possibly. I’m not sure how true it is that the fediverse necessarily leads to more efficient computing needs per user. I’d bet it’s the opposite.

But, as you perhaps allude to, there are other factors. For those who only want niche smaller communities, they can enjoy a more stripped down experience without needing speedy and beefy servers. Similarly, the platforms here are probably slimmer and not bloated with features that are trying to engage and monetise.

The major factor, IMO, is ownership. Admins literally own their servers. And should have a much closer and codependent relationship with the users in their servers, except in the case of large instances which become different beasts. Additionally, users have much more choice and mobility on the fediverse. All of which means admins/moderators and users have more at stake in their relationship. More ownership over their platform/instance. And therefore actually have a reason to donate and contribute and help out.

falcon,

This whole situation feels like a short term revenue grab. I bet shareholders are trying to inflate the numbers in order to cash out in the IPO.

imperator,

This is likely the case. I'm sure we'll see an IPO this year or early next after they've pumped up numbers.

Debs,

Yeah. I think this is pretty much the accepted narrative. Kill the 3P apps -> Consolidate the user base -> Serve everyone adds -> Hopefully turn a profit -> Go public or sell the company -> Founders/Investors cash out and profit.

The collateral damage is that they risk killing the culture that makes Reddit a place people want to congregate.

Animortis,

I keep sitting here waiting for Reddit to backtrack. But it keeps not happening.

roi,

Reddit isn't going back. Even if they did I'm sure they just convinced multiple users to not go back. I hope the blackout and tons of users moving will have a big enough impact to devalue Reddit even if somewhat.

goat,

I predict Reddit backing out, lowering the API price to something realistic, and then everyone forgets what happened, like every other time something like this has happened.

pcouy,

I predict that Reddit has already lost a lot of users for good. Only reason I'm going back is to promote lemmy over there

Hamartiogonic,
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

If they choose to lower the API price after all the 3rd party apps have already been disconnected for a day or two, it’s already too late. At that point the damage is done and there’s no going back

goat,

yeah but people are addicted and will forget. most users here will eventually return to reddit, that's just how it works.

spicyjimmy87762,

I really hope not. Switching to a new platform has made me realize how much I wasn’t being social on a social media site. Because of all the toxicity I was only going to a few subreddits. I’ve already created my first community here in Lemmy and I’m commenting and engaging again.

isdfoa,

if there can be a coordinated migration to the fediverse during blackout, that'd be the dream.

Kissaki,

Question:

How do you address the concerns of users who feel that Reddit has become increasingly profit-driven and less focused on community engagement?

Answer:

We’ll continue to be profit-driven until profits arrive. Unlike some of the 3P apps, we are not profitable.

This is where I lost all hope.

There'd be all kinds of better ways to go about making profit / becoming financially sustainable. This is blatant ignorance and mismanagement, without hearing or seeing anything. Complete mismanagement.

morrowind,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

Megathread? Why not just use !reddit ?

V4uban,

BBC coverage: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-65855608

kherge,

I wish they included Selig's follow up on disproving the app's supposed inefficiency.

tyler,

I wonder how much backtracking will be done. Are they going to listen to the concerns of the community or are they going to double down on their decisions?

DaEagle,

My guess - zero backtracking

tyler,

From how the AMA went, it sure seems that way. Funny how they just agreed to fuck over Apollo, but are working with the other apps, especially after blatantly lying about the situation. What a mess.

khoplex,

Spez was likely pissy that Christian called him on his bullshit and had all the receipts to prove it.

roi,

Fair point.

ZapBeebz,

I'll bet spez isn't too happy about Apollo featuring in the Apple WWDC rather than the official app, either

beek,

Thin skin and the inability to admit that you’re wrong aren’t great qualities to have in a CEO…

Cube6392,

And yet most CEOs have precisely those narcissistic tendencies

Nilesse,

They say they are working with other apps but there were other devs posting that they've been trying to reach out but not getting any answers. The ball is being dropped on so many aspects.

XLRV,
@XLRV@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah, in their answers, they didn't show any will to compromise.

dirtmayor,

TechCrunch: Reddit CEO doubles down on attack on Apollo developer in drama-filled AMA

Annies_Boobs,

I’m glad at least one site is taking off the kid gloves with the title.

makingStuffForFun,
@makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml avatar

I love how the AMA has 0 points. You down vote it and it comes back to 0. No manipulation there reddit. Just that alone shows what a disgrace that company is.

Skyhighatrist,

I don't think posts on reddit ever actually show less than 0 points no matter how many downvotes they get. Comments do, but posts always bottom out at 0 as far as I know.

StoicLime,

Oh, it's been such a long time since I've used the official Reddit app that I forgot about this, because you can see the downvotes in other apps.

makingStuffForFun,
@makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml avatar

Ahhh. What about that ea post? Didn't it have some crazy negative number? Or was that just the comment? Probably the comment

SpookyBogMonster,

That was a specific comment

uplink, (edited )

On Reddit, comments can show negative scores, but posts will never show a score lower than zero. It used to be possible to determine how negative a post score really was, but that hasn't been possible for some time now.

Edit: I guess that doesn't really answer your question. I read too fast, whoops.

setsneedtofeed,

When the individual up and downvote counts on comments and threads went away, that was a bad sign. Back in the old days you might see a comment with a -100 total score, but you could also see it had 400 upvotes and 500 downvotes, which made it a lot more clear it was a controversial but perhaps not wholly worthless comment. Modern reddit design just shows the final number, which I think capitalizes on internet hivemind behavior.

uplink,

One or more of the Reddit interfaces displays a dagger on comments that are "controversial", notably missing from the official phone app I think. I do miss the individual counts, though.

setsneedtofeed,

I have (or should say "had") the dagger on Apollo, but it's a downgrade from being able to see the straight numbers. And of course my point being that reddit has continued to obfuscate info, so even though it is on 3rd party they have no problem hiding it from the primary userbase. Just I don't know. Talking about all this kind of wears me out, ya know? I think everybody here is just tired of reddit the machine.

setsneedtofeed,

That's been a thing for a long time. Threads can not go into negatives. You can only see the upvote percentage.

You aren't the first person I've seen confused about that, which I think indicates a big problem with reddit's modern design. Back in the old days on every thread and comment you could see both how many up and down votes it got, not just the total number. It was cleaner and more transparent. Over time, reddit has increasingly obfuscated how all the magic numbers work.

Limeade,

Before they changed what numbers they showed, there were karma farmers that specifically posted dumb stuff to rack up the most negative karma score they could. Over time Reddit has done a fair bit of tweaking of what numbers are shown and setting caps or floors in some places.

This isn't special behavior, all posts have a floor of 0. Only comments can have negative scores.

DJDarren,

Well, the AMA was a shining success…

DJDarren,

Oblig. fuck u/spez

Melody,

Seconded fuck /u/spez

makingStuffForFun,
@makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml avatar

The way that guy gaslit the Appolo dev, and doubles down that the Appolo dev is the bad guy. Even though the recording is clear that the reddit ceo is straight up lying. Imaging working with, or having to interact with someone who so easily lies like that. Shameless

DJDarren,

It’s hilarious really. Christian has the fucking receipts. Spez can say what he wants, but it’s meaningless drivel.

ellabella,

Also, I just looked into the AMA and....he only gave 14 answers 🙄

roi,

The answers were all copy & paste canned ones. No wonder

AbelianGrape,

To their credit, there were other admins too!

Collectively, they answered responded to a whopping additional 5 comments!

I may miss the community, but I definitely won't miss reddit.

charlytune,
@charlytune@mander.xyz avatar

Did they ever publish the starting time, or did it just start? It seemed to have happened while I was asleep. Not that I'd have stayed up for it ha.

Parsnip8904,
@Parsnip8904@beehaw.org avatar

It is hilarious to see this happening. Option A, he could have just shut up, released a press statement and waited till this blew over, he didn't do that. Option B would have been to do an AMA, engage with people and say nice but meaningless things to placate people and do whatever he wants in private, he didn't do that either.

Instead he choses to host an AMA, copy pastes canned responses, edits his comment when someone caught it, ditches the canned response when a question is asked about the Apollo thing and doubles down, and finally leaves after answering 14 questions.

You really can't make this shit up 🤣

ApathyMoose,

"First, thank you for all the years of dedication to Reddit. You’re amazing." - My favorite Mod post of the AMA

Carcel,
@Carcel@lemmy.ml avatar

RedReader has been granted a non-commercial accessibility exemption and will not shut down. QuantumBadger is planning long term changes to support Lemmy, HackerNews, and Tild.es alongside Reddit in the same app.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RedReader/comments/145du4j/update_4_redreader_granted_noncommercial/

ellabella,

I'm using libreddit on PC, and Offline Reader for Reddit for my android, I'm not good at tech stuff, can anyone confirm if they are also exempted?

rakkhun,

I believe that libreddit is looking for a workaround against the reddit api changes, if they cannot find one they will move to web scraping

Lowbird,

That is fantastic news.

I've already deleted my reddit account, but I use RedReader primarily as a "look, don't touch" way to view reddit anyways. RedReader allows you to customize so much that you can turn off all the voting buttons and the reply buttons, so you just get a nice minimalist reading experience, don't have the constant tiny mental overhead of voting, and don't risk getting tempted into impulsively wasting your time (and supporting reddit) writing comments/posts.

Edit: being able to use RedReader for Lemmy would be wonderful, but it looks like that might be a thing in the distant future, perhaps, but not the near future.

roi,

I have also deleted it, but I forgot to wipe the data.

snota,

I'm going to hold off on deleting mine so I can repost stuff to quieter leemy communities to keep them going until it happens more organically.

V4uban,

Interesting, I might do a similar approach in the coming weeks just to keep an eye on some niche subs

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