I don’t like this article because it misses some of the more important details around how to lengthen your device’s life and why you may or may not want to keep your battery at a specific state of charge.
State of charge is pretty arbitrary, your charging circuit could charge between 3.0V and 4.2V (pretty typical), or it could charge between 3.2V and 4.0V and still show 4.0V as being 100% charge. Different chemistries can have slightly (or significant in the case of LFP) different voltages. The cynic in me wouldn’t be surprised if eventually 100% becomes ~4.35V because it makes their device look better to tech reviewers, but then have it default to only charge to 4.2V because it still gives suitable device life.
The most important factors in how long your device’s battery will last are temperature and how deeply you discharge the battery. Discharging your phone down until it dies does way more damage than keeping it charged at 100%.
At some point practicality comes into it, you would get even more total energy out of a cell if you kept it between 40% and 60% all the time, but obviously it isn’t very practical to only use 20% of your phone’s available capacity in day to day use.
Consider how long you are storing your device. If it is always plugged in or won’t be used for months, then something like 40% to 60% would be a more suitable state of charge to keep your device at if possible. If it sits on your desk and you need to unplug it periodically and know you don’t need the full charge, then sure keep it at 80%.
Personally, I don’t stress about the batteries in my devices at all. I generally keep an eye on the power and plug it in when convenient, but target plugging it in before it gets too far below 50%. I’ve historically had almost zero issues with the batteries in my devices wearing out before I’m ready to replace it for other reasons unless it started out with marginal battery life.
Yeah, that’s been my whole experience surrounding people being upset that batteries aren’t able to be replaced in phones anymore. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s a good habit, but I’ve never had a phone long enough for the battery’s life to degrade to the point where that degradation was more than mildy noticeable.
Maybe that says more about your phone consumption than battery life.
I try not to buy a new phone every year and I can tell you, after 3-4 years, the batteries are very noticeably dying. My last two phones (nexus 4, moto z play) both were replaced due to failing batteries, since replacing them is almost impossible (I couldn’t even find replacements that I would call trustworthy).
My usage was not super unusual, and most days I plugged them in over night and that’s it.
It can also depend on the device. I’ve had smaller devices and have had to charge multiple times a day. After getting a bigger phone with a bigger battery. I simply don’t think about it anymore. I imagine my phone dying before the battery does or even if it does, I’ll pay for a replacement if needed. I’d rather not stress in the day to day.
Yep. Battery chemistry is a real pain in the ass. Every few years someone spins a wheel and determines the next big thing that everyone needs to do to prevent batteries from dying early. For a while people were told full cycles were healthy for avoiding cell memory. Now more sporadic cycles are being peddled.
Use the device as you need it. If you complete a full cycle, cool; if not, that’s fine. Just don’t let the damn thing completely die and don’t keep it permanently on charge. Those are the common things most people do on accident that can really screw up a cell.
It isn’t spinning a wheel though, the advice hasn’t changed in decades (I’ve written something like the above comment at least a dozen times on Reddit since 2008 when I worked in the industry). Rather you might be getting it confused with other cell chemistries. Memory is a problem for NiCd cells, which were popular a long time ago, but even once we moved to NiMH for most things and then Li-ion there is no concern about it. Unfortunately there is a ton of incorrect and bad information out there about batteries so it is hard to wade through the crap and find the real information.
batteryuniversity.com is the best resource I know for correct information about li-ion cells, since it is written and maintained by a company that designs battery testing equipment.
Part of the problem is the game of telephone drops the cell chemistry related to the method almost immediately leading to general consumers applying it as a blanket rule for all batteries
About 4, I’d start long term storage from 80% because self-discharge rate is 30% per year in room temperature, or 15% per year in the fridge, which is the best storage temperature. Also, Battery University said in some article that 65% charge is optimal for storage, which is ~3.95V/cell at rest for most chemistries.
The reason I said 40-60% is because over that entire range both self-discharge and permanent capacity loss happen at their slowest rates because that is the flat range of the voltage curve where the cell is close to its nominal 3.7V voltage. The self-discharge with starting at 80% will maybe buy you an extra couple months before the cell becomes unusable, but you would experience more irreversible capacity loss.
indeed, have had battery protection to 85% on my S10 for the last 4 years, I figured if it was going to save me the hassle of replacing a non replaceable battery in the long run, i was all for it. my S10 is still running like a champ and I see no reason to upgrade for at least a couple more years, when they hopefully bring back removable and expandable SD storage
Same here. Battery still feels like new nearly 2 years later, and I use it as a GPS damn near 40 hours a week on top of normal usage. I like to run my phones into the ground these days, and the battery is almost always the first to go. Looks like I'll be getting at least another 3 or 3 years out of this one.
Depends who you ask. To manufacturers it’s a brilliant idea. It’s not a mystery that no electrical engineer knows that Li-Ion batteries don’t like to be fully charged. It’s just that manufacturers realized that charging 100% means you battery will die at around 2 year mark or 600-1000 charge cycles and that will be enough push for some people to buy a new device while at the same time your device seems to last longer on a single charge. Charging to 80% or 85% significantly extends life span of a battery. At that point chemistry almost doesn’t degrade.
And it’s not just with mobile devices and batteries that this is happening. Engineering with a plan to fail at specific time has become a precise science. Making something that will last forever is not that difficult, just not lucrative to them. Take for example LED lights. Manufacturer states 50k hours at 3.1V for white LED. Reduce that voltage down to 2.5V and you have basically made it infinite but it glows less, so to compensate you’d have to add more LEDs and that hits their income. Big Clive has a great video on the subject.
This should not only result in government regulation where artificial battery killing is prohibited, it should result it jailing execs who decided this was a good idea.
I don’t know, I have a bunch of years old Sony Konion vtc5 and vtc6 18650s, they’re constantly loaded and drained, I guess some have thousands of cycles. Of course, they’re not new anymore, but even my oldest ones, 7 years plus, are ok. They still give 34 ampere for quite some time, so no problems here. Got some even older no-name ones in akku packs, 10 years old, not so many cycles, no problems there either. Maybe because I never charged them quickly and with adaptive voltage?!?
There are 18650 batteries with protection circuit and without. It’s basically over-charge, under-charge and high temperature protection. More info. When charging any battery higher voltage means faster charge and it’s usually not a problem. What is a problem is heat generated. If you can’t dissipate heat fast enough, then you have a potential problem. Slower charging is always safer.
And all charging processes are adaptive voltage to a degree. Say you are charging 18650. Your charger will start with target voltage and constant current at 500mA, and watch the voltage in the battery raise. Once voltage reaches target it will remain constant but charge current will slowly drop. Once there’s no current going in, battery is full at that voltage level. Some chargers will push more current in, some will try higher voltage initially then switch to target voltage. Higher current can be a problem due to chemistry stability and heat but higher voltage should generally be safe. You can even revive some of the old batteries that no longer have any charge by shocking them with higher voltage shortly.
For android users, we can easily set notifications if battery level reach certain range by using apps like Tasker. Before this I set it for full charge. Change it to above 80% just now.
EDIT: tasker proj file in case anyone is interested. Link.
I wouldn’t be surprised. Hardware should already be there since Android supports stopping charge when battery is too hot. Adding software feature to stop charge at certain percentage is not that difficult.
There used to be a magisk module that would charge the battery intelligently and stop before b Full charge but I don’t think it exists anymore sadly, or at least I haven’t been able to find it
Actually, thinking about it, a and b might be switched, but the point stands: it’s probably been twenty years since battery life was the reason I upgraded (from a flip phone to another flip phone, iirc).
… Aren’t devices designed to only charge the battery to 90% (and report that as 100%), because actually changing a battery to 100% is pretty harmful for it?
Yeah, I’m pretty sure I read that somewhere too. The reason being overcharging just once basically kills them, so they give it a lot of leeway and say it’s 100% well before that.
You’re thinking of cars, industry and others that have high value batteries.
Power tools, smartphones etc charge to the maximum 4.2V/cell, sometimes even 4.3V (some chemistries safely allow it) because the average person just wants the maximum runtime and will replace the equipment before the battery degrades significantly.
This sounds like the battery and the charger’s problem to handle, not mine.
All this tech, all this automation for every damn thing, and people keep coming at me like I’m supposed to do everything manually with my fingers and eyes and maybe an alarm or something to keep me on schedule. No. Stop it.
Make the charger handle it, or shut up. Make the phone, the charger, and the battery handle it together, you know, with digital automation. Do not even mention it to me.
It’s funny how people think that the users here are substantially different than reddit users. It’s the same shit, just fewer of us and the political alignment is further left.
He’s directing it to a forum of people under a topic regarding phones not being optimized to charge past 80%. Quite a fair frustration I’d say, since most people charge their phones while sleeping. The technology should stop charging automatically
I charge mine at night with an alarm on it for getting up in the morning, my dad however charges his multiple times a day as he puts it on when it only drops down to 95-80%.
I doubt this is directed at ifixit. I agree with their general comment, but at the same time device manufacturers have no incentive to make their devices last longer unless they are forced to.
When you say “make it do x and y” who should be the person that does it? Without raising enough awareness of the problem, change will not happen. The only way for it to happen is that enough people is pissed off and changes brands.
100% agree. Mate, there’s an another ongoing post on lemmy about autosaving documents, and how everyone seems to think that saving files with their fingers pressing keys on a keyboard is the best approach possible in 2024 because software just can’t do this reliably.
Of course everyone also knows better than their charger, battery and device.
The manufacturers correctly surmise that most people prefer a battery that holds it’s charge longer over the first year or so, rather than a battery that will last more years.
If your preferences differ from that of most people, then you need to exercise your preferences.
No, I think you’re just another snarky Lemmy commenter that doesn’t bother actually readying and understanding anything but trots out the same tired positions in thread after thread.
Yup. If it’s such a huge issue, phones should only charge to 80% and report that to the user as 100%. But phone manufacturers won’t do that, because users want to be able to report the longest battery life possible when selling new phones. They don’t care that the charging habits are bad for battery longevity, because the user has already purchased the phone.
Samsung phones have the capability to do this. There’s a setting you can set to only charge to 80%. It looks like they mention that in the article.
Android phones in general have something called Adaptive Charging that attunes to when you normally need a full charge. For instance if you are charging at night while you’re sleeping it will charge slower than it would during the day to improve battery health.
Damn, some of you must have pretty chill lives if paying attention to what level your battery charge is at DAILY is something you want to add to your plates. I mean sure, if there was a setting that allowed you to have the phone automatically cut charging at 80% this might be worth thinking about. But when I charge my phone its during times when I dont have to think about it (Aka 90% of the time, when I’m asleep)
My phone has exactly this (oneplus 9 pro) but it works only when there is a full moon and the next Friday is the thirteen’s day of the month, plus some other unknown requirements
I’ve a one plus Nord 2 5g and it has optimised charging at night but it doesn’t come on every night I charge it and it does feel like there’s some arcane shit needed for it to work at times.
Samsung has this option, called Battery Protect I think. There’s also the Accubattery app which will set an alarm to go off once it reaches 80 pct. I’m with you though, unless the phone itself shuts off charging, it’s too much to manage even with an alarm.
I’ve stopped charging my phone overnight which I typically advise people against but also keep a charger at my desk. My phone actually has a battery saver setting that cuts charging at 85%.
Overnight is literally the easiest and most natural slot to do so. Whether or not its most optimal is not whats important, I’ll just seek out brands that aknowledge this reality and build their hardware and software around this
What kind of phone do you have. Samsing, Apple and Pixel all have solutions.
The used prixel I got recently automatically only charges to 80% if an alarm is set, then charges the rest of the way to hit 100% when the alarm goes off.
Its more I’m lazy. I’m on a ROG Phone 3, and as a gaming phone it probably has that feature. I’m moreso just arguing that if this is still an issue batteries face, tech should address it and fin solutions for how to get around the most common form of charging which is plugging it in and doing something else, which inherently means you ARENT watching what charge its at and have little control over when it stops charging
My pixel (5a) only does adaptive charging if your alarm is set for the A.M. If you’re second or third shift, it doesn’t even try. There’s no way to turn it on even in developer options. It was a pretty big wtf when I figured that one out.
True, of course the simplest and easiest solution is the one that takes the least amount of thinking and effort.
My only issue is there are brands that try to build around this but it’s incredibly difficult. I understand iPhones have some kind of smart charging that’s supposed to charge slowly but stop until it learns when it thinks you’ll need it and finish charging just before then. However, that relies on consistent data and consistent routine and I would think that could potentially be quite inaccurate if you have a more inconsistent routine. I don’t think I’ve seen a better implementation yet unfortunately.
It’s just become second nature to me to watch for and charge my phone so certain times. I feel like that’s just a part of owning a mobile device.
Yeah, thats kind of my point. Plugging your phone in every night when you go to bed is a pretty natural and low thought way of charging any electronic device
I still charge to 100, but I use a slow charger, so my phone doesn’t start to spew flames while it’s charging. I wouldn’t be surprised if that helped as well (as heat is another battery killer).
I just can’t be bothered to handle that shit manually.
its an easy way to obsess over something that will make at most a tiny marginal difference.
“whoa your phone lasts 4% more than mine because you obsessively babysat every charge session to perfection in the past 5 years? good one champ, I was instead enjoying my life”
I just upgraded my charger to one that is 100W but my phone and charger talk so it doesn’t charge any faster than it used to. The charger can be used to charge tablets and laptops that need the oomph.
This is extremely normal for any phones more than a couple years old. Wifi / cell network polling for messages uses a lot of battery, and I only remember my phone getting smarter about it around 2019? (Most phones now will detect you’re inactive and poll network much less frequently overnight for example)
My samsung n20 ultra has the 85% charge option built in and I’ve always used it to keep my battery good. Back when it was easier to use custom roms in the 2010-2014 Era there was a lost of them that had custom “stop charging options” like it.
I also have fast/ultra fast charging disabled. If you don’t need to quickly charge your phone, it’s something else you should avoid.
For steam deck owners it gets a bit more complicated. SD has pass through charging, so once the battery is fully charged and also while it is plugged in, you aren’t powering it through the battery like cell phones and most laptops do. It’s just running off the USB c power, so if you usually play while plugged in, you aren’t cycling the battery, but you are having to allow it to fully charge.
SD has pass through charging, so once the battery is fully charged and also while it is plugged in, you aren’t powering it through the battery like cell phones and most laptops do.
That’s how nearly all modern devices work. Li-Ion can’t be charged and discharged simultaneously. There is circuitry to split the power between the battery and the device when it’s being charged.
Cheaper devices will just stop charging when you use them or they won’t work at all when plugged in.
This is flat out not true for most phones. Most phones will charge to 100% and continously charge/discharge if still plugged in. Over the last couple years there’s been some phones that will allow pass through/bypass charging. Iphones don’t do it at all. Only some android phones.
the 400% figure is extremely misleading and based on old assumptions and old battery tech.
Also it you’re not keeping the phone for 20 years then it doesn’t make sense to calculate “total electrons” over the absolute entirety of the battery “life”.
Agreed. If you’re a device maker and you haven’t considered the possibility of your users plugging in their devices for long periods of time in your design, then i feel that’s on you to improve your product.
I have enabled the option to limit charging to 85% on my Samsung, and last weekend I needed it to last for 2 days so I charged it to 100%. Easily made it. It’s nice to know you have that 100% when you need it .
I hear the same argument about EVs, where many charge to 80%. Sometimes you need that extra juice, and by all means use it. Other times you’re only going to the grocery store, or sitting at your desk all day, and you can stay plugged in and you don’t really need that 20%. It’s no real skin off your nose either way.
Then, years from now when you need as much energy as your battery can give, you haven’t lost it to degradation and you really haven’t lost much along the way.
Literally. It even extends to other Lithium based chemistries too, like LiFePo4.
It’s not like this information is hiding either - ask a battery manufacturer/distributor for a Li-ion cell’s charge cycle data, what you’ll find is most manufacturers only guarantee 300-500 cycles before the battery has lost 80% of its usable capacity at 100% DoD and charging to the 100% SoC voltage. Decreasing just the maximum SoC to 90% brings massive battery longevity gains, where estimated cycles increase to 1000 (and beyond in some cases), while still retaining over 80% of the battery’s usable capacity.
All my personal devices that I’ve checked sadly target 100% SoC voltage and charge rate, without regard for the longevity of the battery. Just seems almost like they’ve just punched in the numbers from the “ABSOLUTE MAX RATINGS” part of the datasheet and called it a day.
It’s a little disappointing that a lot of people are under the belief that their product has been designed to last as long as it can, when in most cases this intentionally or accidentally isn’t the case right now, in industries outside of backup power and EVs
I very rarely need a full charge when I get a new phone. Battery rarely drops under 50% unless it’s a heavy use day. However, that same phone 3 years later will be causing me issues because the battery doesn’t last through the day.
I would happily trade off 20% max battery in the first few years, to get a healthier battery 4 years down the line.
I just charge my phone to full when it’s at like 20 and then unplug it when it’s done charging. Have had this phone for like 2 and a half years and I don’t have noticeable degradation, but it’s a flagship samsung phone so I know they typically have pretty good cells in them.
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