People bitching about Lemmy.world blocking piracy instances sound like spoiled teenagers with no consideration of consequences

Humans who run instances are real people who have jobs and mortgages and kids. I also like having piracy communities around to balance the greedy ass corporations trying to control media and copyright…I’m glad to know they are there if I need them or feel like screwing around with it. I just wonder if the people ranting all indignantly acting like instances are competing for their usership would feel the same if the most active instance was on a server physically sitting in their basement, or paid for by money tied to them in the real world. Yes it seems pretty unlikely that you’re ever going to run into issues with law enforcement, copyright claims, lawsuits…but how much would you risk for a fucking hobby you do for free? Would you risk your house? Your job? I would not. Grow up. No one cares what instance you use.

TrismegistusMx,
@TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

Your whole vibe seems pretty narcissistic and gaslighty. When you point a finger, you point three at yourself.

GunnarRunnar,

Talking about finger pointing without actually breaking down their argument doesn't seem constructive and makes you sound like op hit home with their description.

TrismegistusMx,
@TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

Oh, I’ve got better things to do than to try molding something desirable out of a pile of shit.

GunnarRunnar,

Sure thing like replying to every comment. It would take two seconds to say anything of worth but you're just a deflecting idiot.

TrismegistusMx,
@TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

Now you’re just projecting.

mysoulishome,

Ok. I’m cranky because my kid missed the bus today and work was stressful and it just reminds me how the dude who made world is also an unremarkable middle aged white man like myself. Someone has to be a grownup and pay the bills, that’s all, and if you are losing your mind over world blocking piracy then that someone most likely isn’t you.

sin_free_for_00_days,

it just reminds me how the dude who made world is also an unremarkable middle aged white man

I thought you were going to go religious on us for a second there.

clueless_stoner,

lol

TrismegistusMx,
@TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

I’m never in favor of thought police deciding what I’m allowed to see. ACAB and all that.

ikidd,
@ikidd@lemmy.world avatar

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    Doubling down on the narcissistic abuse. It’s a bold tactic, Cotton. Let’s see if it works out for him.

    GunnarRunnar,

    What? What's narcissistic about that comment. Abuse -- maybe since that was antagonistic language and it just might be your first day on the internet.

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    It opens with a personal attack on the intelligence of a group of “stupid fuckers,” and you don’t see any narcissism? No wonder people fall for their games.

    PseudoSpock,
    @PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    You two kids done?

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    He started it!

    PseudoSpock,
    @PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Meh, you’re both being awful. Now shake hands and make up. ;) Oh, and I know I’m a total hypocrite. It’s what I’m good at.

    ikidd,
    @ikidd@lemmy.world avatar

    I calls them as I sees them. Seems to have worked out fine, for me at least.

    eric5949,

    It’s not thought police, go host your own instance like I do if you care that much, fuck I’ll help you set it up. Jesus you people are insane sometimes.

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    It is thought police. I can handle my own affairs, thank you. It sounds like you’ve been through enough.

    GunnarRunnar,

    Lmao thought police is fucking sending me a bill for breaking the copyright law!!

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    Controlling what you see online is also thought policing.

    GunnarRunnar,

    No, calling protective measures fascism/thought controlling/etc is in fact closer to thought controlling than that in itself. And besides you can easily bypass this ban, which wasn't done in secret but with a public announcement.

    Just... grow up or come up with a real point.

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    Lol, do I need to be protected from the pirates? Am I going to be taken away by the dirty criminals? Is this decreed for my own good? What will you do if I continue to object?

    IDK, feels pretty fascist.

    Rottcodd,
    Rottcodd avatar

    narcissistic

    narcissistic

    narcissism

    Lol, do I need to be protected from the pirates? Am I going to be taken away by the dirty criminals? Is this decreed for my own good?

    Lol

    When you point a finger, you point three at yourself.

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s really sad living in a world where people don’t realize that narcissism is a set of behaviors and not an insult. That’s what we get for letting Republicans destroy education.

    GunnarRunnar,

    Not you, you fucking idiot. Are you actually this stupid? Jesus fucking christ.

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    GunnarRunnar,

    'It' isn't stupid, you're. Or you're just trolling, if that's the case, hey I see you, you got attention and now can go back to your unfulfilling life.

    I kinda hope you're a troll because holy fucking shit you should be studied if you're this stupid.

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    Honestly, the projections of people like you would be hilarious if they weren’t so tragic.

    eric5949,

    Nobody is controlling what you see online, you choose to use the instance you use.

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    This is LemmyWurld, if you don’t like it, leave!

    Rom,

    So switch to an instance that doesn’t block them? That’s the whole point of federation. I’ve already jumped instances once, and I’m probably going to a second time.

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    “This is Lemmy World, if you don’t like it leave!”

    See? Fascism.

    I’d rather make you put me in a prison.

    Rom,

    Imagine being this much of a whiny loser about switching to another instance.

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Rom,

    Nazism is when someone points out you have the option to move to another instance.

    Feathercrown,

    This has to be trolling lmao you can’t be serious

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    Genius first appears as madness to ignorance.

    Feathercrown,

    Banger quote but that doesn’t make you right

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    Except it’s an original idea, and I am right. I’ve seen colonization enough times in my life to know how it works on every level. You don’t know what you can’t see, and you’re trusting an authority to determine what’s appropriate for you to know. Today it’s piracy, tomorrow obscenity, the next day political enemies. There’s only one way this goes. Authority is anti-intellectual because free thought runs counter to blind obedience.

    Feathercrown,

    Lemmy.world does not have authority over us. Just move to another instance.

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    It has authority over every user that has an account on its server. The more it chooses to wield that power, the more authoritarian it becomes. This isn’t my only account, but abandoning a frontier to the political right isn’t my style. I’ll continue to do what I want to do until they use violence to remove me.

    Feathercrown,

    Technically true, although that’s a voluntary submission to authority. Whatever though, good luck in your work.

    PseudoSpock,
    @PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Ok. I’m cranky because my kid missed the bus today and work was stressful

    Oh my god, nobody cares about that outside your home.

    mysoulishome,

    Cool

    YeetPics,

    Why are you so mad that user are mad? These people made a new home (free of corporate oversight (fuck spez)) and now corporate bs is leaking in and we are pissed. Makes sense to me. Seeing the mods mock users asking questions is asinine. So I switched instances, which was mildly inconvenient.

    Nobody gives a fuck about you kiddo missing the bus mate. Maybe keep it in your lane. Don’t post if your home life is so rocky that you sound like a chud.

    mysoulishome,

    Corporate bs lol that is deluded. My whole point is that the decision was made by regular people who make zero money from this for practical reasons that are reasonable. Letting off steam just because, don’t mean to make you feel attacked but fuck you too guy. There was no need to say that.

    YeetPics,

    Corporate bs lol that is deluded.

    When the reason for defederating is because “we might get sued” it might be important to ask who is doing the suing.

    Hint: it’s a corporation.

    Edit: sorry if I hurt your feelings.

    mysoulishome,

    I gotcha I guess I misunderstood what you meant.

    BURN,

    Did you ever really believe everything were saying on here wasn’t already monitored by corps? If the threat of being sued is corporate BS then this place has been infiltrated since day 1.

    Kolanaki,
    @Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

    I get where your argument stems from, and I do agree with it when it comes to actual file hosting. But lemmy instances don’t host any files other than images. People are only talking about piracy. There isn’t anything illegal going on, risking liability by letting people discuss shit.

    I find it far more compelling to focus on the argument against the whiny people that the community was in violation of the rules established by the instance the entire time it existed. The instance didn’t change the rules all of sudden, it just decided to enforce them.

    It’s not the end of the world. Make a new instance. An instance specifically devoted to piracy. Then you can do whatever the hell you want because a pirate is free.

    withdrawn,

    So happy that people make the same narcissistic finger-wagging posts that were so beloved on Reddit.

    panda_paddle,

    How is this opinion narcissistic? I would say the community that’s main focus is ripping of content creators while freeloading off of paying consumers are the narcissists. I pirate too but I don’t pretend it’s some noble venture.

    atticus88th,

    Somethings never change.

    stephenc,

    No, sorry. When you care about freedom of speech – even when you take into account that hate speech is not freedom of speech and block truly bad, hateful stuff – you have the responsibility to include everything that is truly free speech. This whole “butbut the law!” crap is cowardice and fishing for excuses. Someone running lemmy.world has a personal reason for blocking piracy and/or is a massive coward afraid to accept the responsibility of a free speech website, and either way, should step down and allow someone with the confidence and integrity to run a site that allows the free exchange of ideas (to the point of not allowing hate).

    Asymptote, (edited )

    Free speech is free speech except the kinds you don’t personally approve of and now you are complaining that someone else doesn’t have the same approvals as you.

    stephenc,

    Ok, Trump supporter. If you cannot handle free speech not including radical, hateful bullshit, get the fuck to some fascist country and live there instead.

    Asymptote,

    Ah yes, I disagree with your pitiful thin skinned bullshit so I must be an American who supports someone you don’t like.

    I see no flaws in your big brained logic here.

    I would advise you to touch grass, but that’s probably hate speech to you, what with that involving movement and all.

    gowan,

    Im really hoping you are a kid still. Absolutist positions on speech are really ill founded.

    The fact is you are asking someone to get sued so that you can have what you want

    stephenc,

    This is how I know you’re still young. Age will kill your idealism and you will begin to see life as it really is.

    No one is getting sued because THIS INSTANCE IS NOT HOSTING THE FUCKING THING IN THE FIRST PLACE. Get that through your thick goddamn skull.

    spez_,

    Host your own instance. When companies sue you, no one is coming to save you

    mysoulishome, (edited )

    Ha…your name. Would be so funny if he was out here hanging with us landed gentry.

    stephenc,

    No one will because I am not the one hosting the piracy board. How can you not understand this? Oh, right, you’re a bunch of moral police despising the fact that capitalism has failed and trying to punish those who are helping their fellow humans share what we have created. Trust me, the creators get almost jack fucking shit anyway, it’s all going to the greedy corporations that get almost all of it.

    There’s no moral justification against piracy.

    mysoulishome,

    Please do me a favor. Host an instance that has 50,000 users. Allow everything that people want to post…porn, drugs, guns and piracy. Tell me you are 100% willing to go to jail or mortgage your house to pay your legal bills if it comes to it. Tell me you sleep just fine at night and never worry, or you do worry but you’re just so so so brave you do it anyway. Tell me anyone who wouldn’t do that is a pussy. I don’t believe you would do all of this and I don’t think it’s fair to expect anyone else to if you wouldn’t.

    Just FYI, I upvoted your comment because I appreciate you expressing yourself but no one said Lemmy is a platform devoted to free speech and I disagree with everything you said.

    stephenc,

    I cannot believe people are actually defending this. People aren’t posting to THIS INSTANCE. THEY ARE POSTING TO ANOTHER ONE YOU HAPPEN TO ALLOW TO VIEW OTHER INSTANCES. Do you sue a cable company for content a network does? No?

    This is ridiculous and smacks of a concentrated effort by its owners to justify their radical hatred of fair, common sense pushback of capitalism by justified piracy. Fuck off.

    mysoulishome,

    That certainly is an opinion. Upvoted.

    Lightor,

    I get what you’re saying, but calling people spoiled teenagers won’t change anyone’s mind. Attacking people is never a path to changing their mind.

    mysoulishome,

    You’re probably right. I was venting. Didn’t mean to offend anyone but people were getting silly with their outrage and felt like lots was misplaced, immature, short sighted

    ArmokGoB,

    The real issue is that LW has become the de facto front page of Lemmy. No instance should have as many users/communities as they do. It gives them too much power over Lemmy. They could probably kill many instances if they decided to defederate from them.

    mysoulishome, (edited )

    100% agree. The system wasn’t designed to have a few massive instances…many, including myself, didn’t understand at first and thought Lemmy.world was… Lemmy… Much better to have dozens to hundreds of smaller ones and have a few accounts here and there. It’s probably good for people to realize no one controls the fediverse and separate themselves from the idea of even having a “home” instance for all uses. Maybe.

    hitmyspot,

    They probably could but if they do so without cause, then likely they will lose users and have others defederate from them, too.

    I think when it’s easier to migrate accounts between instances, were more likely to see more movement. I had an account on Lemmy.workd and this one. I was hesitant to abandon the world one as I’d already curated blocks and subscribes. It felt like starting over, doing so again elsewhere.

    There are now tools to automate but it’s not as simple as it should and likely will be and those tools aren’t baked in.

    I imagine that if that instance is flooded with new users and continues to grow, niche communities may become even more attractive as irrelevant content overpowers what many users want to see. It’s also good that new users have a place like that to easily find content, even if it’s broader than what will make for a long term community with adult discussion. Both kinds are good.

    The only reason I picked Lemmy world is it was one of the listed communities on the Lemmy instance list. It listed by user numbers, so it’s likely to stay there, if that website continues to be just a list of instances. The advice is to pick an instance that matches your interests, but few instances are purpose built for that. I’d want to trial Lemmy as a new user before doing that level of research.

    BURN,

    LW is likely the first of a few super instances. The next big migration from Reddit should be pointed at another instance prepared to handle the load.

    If the fediverse grows and scales then instances the size of LW will probably be more common. People like to be where the other people are

    chatokun, (edited )

    I’m having issues registering on others atm. Lemmy.ml said it was closed when I attempted. Lemmy.dbzer0.com appeared ro let me sign up, sent me a verification email, which was accepted, but then every login attempt just cyclew and reloads for me. No error message. Reset password to verify that it was an account, got email, reset password successfully, then same thing.

    For something I want to be casually doing, it’s kinda annoying.

    Edit: dbzer0 just needed time. I saw a mention of authorization, but I guess I just assumed that would happen before the verification email. My bad.

    Asymptote,

    Yeah the registration flow in Lemmy (on all instances basically) is not that mature.

    Blackmist,

    Piracy is the second thing every social network has to make an effort to remove. The first one is child porn.

    As free speech as everyone’s intentions are for the most part, you can only be in that fight so far as your pockets allow. If you believe you are legally untouchable, then go for it. But you’re probably not.

    Nioxic,

    Child porn has victims

    Piracy hurts nobody. It really doesnt. The music, movie and games industry have never generated as much money as they do these days.

    Of course its still illegal… in most places. (Not all…)

    Blackmist,

    I agree with you, but nobody wants to lose their house to prove it.

    mysoulishome,

    I’m not sure anyone is arguing that piracy is bad…not that I’m seeing anyway. Maybe some think that blocking the piracy instances is a moral stance of some kind but personally I’m verrrrrry sure it was not about ethics but about risks posed. People can say oh well its not a problem just to be talking about piracy but lemmyworld is run by a middle class guy with a few thousand $ in donations and it would be nothing for any copyright holder to ruin his life on a whim.

    UdeRecife,

    I don’t want to take away from your point, but I read parent’s post differently. They were just stating a fact. No moral judgement being passed, no stating this one thing tied to the other.

    Your point still stands, but seems a bit misplaced in this particular discussion.

    Snapz,

    This needs to be upvoted to the top.

    All those entitled kids need to read this classic also: techdirt.com/…/hey-elon-let-me-help-you-speed-run…

    krakenx,

    That was a really good read. It explains why the internet since “Web 2.0” is getting so controlled by a handful of large corporations. It’s basically impossible for small organisations to moderate and comply with all laws in all countries. Especially when a significant subset of their users are intentionally making it difficult.

    nomecks,

    Wow, Elon’s nearly to 4 already!

    Zak,
    @Zak@lemmy.world avatar

    A bit of looking makes me think the admins have a legitimate concern here. Platform immunity in the EU isn’t quite as strong as it is in the US in general, and it’s specifically weaker with regard to copyright.

    A successful copyright lawsuit (maybe even an unsuccessful one) could bring down the whole .world network, which hosts multiple federated services for many people. There could be personal liability for the admins as well. The admins should try to protect against outcomes like that, and the EU should probably strengthen its platform immunity laws.

    khepri, (edited )

    I think this is the right take. Americans have Section 230 (for now) that quite broadly protects communications platforms from liability over what 3rd parties (users) post to their platform about Piracy. We also have the 1st Amendment which more or less protects anything you say short of direct, specific calls to commit crimes and some types of slander/libel. It’s why we can say goofy shit like “now I’m not saying you should do this or encouraging anyone to do this, but if you were going to anyway here’s how:…” and get away with it.

    In the EU, not so much. They have “methods and means” rules that can get platform owners in trouble for 3rd parties just posting about BitTorrent clients or providing advice like “Google X if you want to find Y” on their platform if it’s smells of possible piracy. We’re so used in the US to just being able to disclaim everything we say that this is a bit shocking. But talking about tools and techniques, even if you preamble with “now don’t ever use these for piracy bros, ok, I don’t advocate for using this advice in that way” is not going to save the user or even the platform owners from trouble. It is not just about posting direct links to pirated content or hosting/torrent sites. Maybe a point that is little-understood in the threads I’ve been reading on here about this.

    mysoulishome,

    You basically said what I meant by this post without being an asshole like I was

    If I ran an instance and there was even a fraction of a percent of a chance I could get ruined financially by some media company whose lawyers have a slow day…I might either shut it down, turn it over to someone else, or take some possibly overly cautious steps such as…what we’re talking about. We wanted social media that isn’t controlled by corporations. We got it except uh oh that means we don’t have lawyers like Spez, Zuck, Elmo have piles of.

    whofearsthenight,

    Not sure where LW is hosted, but successful lawsuit absolutely doesn’t matter, just the existence of one. You spin up a server, host your instance, and any corp with their army of lawyers decide to sue. Just stop and think about what a pure hassle and the cost of even responding to the suit is. You’re probably in for a few grand and dozens of hours just on having a suit leveled against you. They don’t have to be morally right, legally right, they don’t have to to win, these companies can ruin lives and it’s just a Tuesday for them.

    fidodo,

    And again, they’re volunteers, they’re already doing a service and they shouldn’t be forced to take legal risks they don’t want to.

    It’s really annoying how lazy people are, the solution is to just have multiple accounts. It’s two clicks to change accounts but those lazy mfs have no response to that except that they don’t want to.

    Zak,
    @Zak@lemmy.world avatar

    On top of that, they’ve been dealing with an ongoing DDOS for weeks. Is blocking piracy communities the response most of us want? No. Is it the best solution to get the most out of limited volunteer resources right now? I think the case for that is strong.

    jumbodumbo,

    It’s a shame the bandwagoning didn’t stay on Reddit as people migrated here. I really wish upvotes and downvotes weren’t displayed for anyone, maybe then people would act more civil.

    Cybersteel,
    @Cybersteel@lemmy.world avatar

    People are gonna people wherever you go to be it another sns or outside.

    YeetPics, (edited )

    And you sound like a pretentious prick 🤷‍♂️

    I’ll make a discord post detailing this, I won’t link you to that info, however.

    mysoulishome,

    K

    HipPriest,

    I mean... The piracy communities have very useful links to wikis all about how to sail the high seas...

    Don't get me wrong, I don't really have any skin in this game, I dabble in a bit of piracy now and again, and am broadly pro having a community for people to chat about it although I don't myself.

    But at the same time when a community description has a link to a page with comprehensive lists of the best sites to download/torrent from, including a cute little goat emoji next to the best ones, let's not be disingenuous. (That wiki is terrific btw)

    If theoretically someone did decide to investigate you for having links to lots of legally dubious information available on your instance I don't know the law in other people's countries but in mine it wouldn't be worth the hassle or attention. I say theoretically because at the moment Lemmy is probably too small to get attention but still.

    I can see why people might want to play it a bit on the safe side if they're not sure if they're going to get into trouble over something or not.

    mrpibb,
    @mrpibb@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m glad the LW admins have the foresight to consider things like this and other areas of concern. It’s good to see LW admin admit when they don’t know enough about something and are being cautious. I don’t think Discord should be the place for any announcements though. Hopefully LW can get the legal protections or assurances necessary to host all of the content people want to see.

    ReadyUser31,

    LW already came out and said announcing on Discord was a mistake (as in, they didn’t mean to do it in the first place, rather than meaning in hindsight it was regretful) and it won’t happen again.

    mysoulishome,

    Yeah I don’t get the discord thing.

    secret301,

    Why does LW even use discord? It’s a good chance to get people to use matrix

    Zeroxxx,

    They are free to defederate but prople have the right to voice their opinions.

    That is not spoiled teenagers.

    Ondergetekende,

    You may not have much experience with spoiled teenagers.

    Voicing ones opinion without regard for the people involved, just because they’re allowed to have one, is pretty much the spoiled teenager MO. Just like not realizing this goes both ways.

    Zeroxxx,

    I said voicing opinion, not voicing opinion without regard.

    JeffCraig,

    dbzer0 hasn’t been defederated. Only the communities inside dbzer0 that actively engage in piracy support have been blocked.

    mysoulishome,

    “I’m DELETING my lemmyworld account!” To me sounds teenagery because it seems like the person doesn’t understand how anything works…legally, financially, etc

    thefloweracidic,

    The internet is a silly place.

    samus12345,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    Let’s not go to Camelot.

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