You should be able to ask "I want a CIS mate" in a dating app without being shamed.

There’s this rising narrative going around that if you ask specifically for a CIS partner, you’re a transphobe. That could be true for some people but it’s not fundamentally related to bigotry. Moreover, this narrative, the “if you only want a CIS mate then that is prejudice” is trampling on one of the most important rights a person can have: the right to choose who they want to get intimate with.

First of all, transmen are in fact men and transwomen are in fact women. Let’s get that out of the way. This isn’t a foot in the door for “trans this really isn’t that” narratives. What this is about it is the freedom to choose who you want to be intimate with. That right is sancrosanct, it is absolutely inviolable.

And yes, there’s plenty of issues that make transgender dating a special issue. If someone reveals their TG status they can be open to hate crimes and even deadly violence. However all marginalized groups are special in their own way. As a black man I don’t think it’s racist if a woman says she doesn’t want to date a black man. I face oppression, too. My class is special in its own way. One group isn’t more special than the other. None of us have the right to force ourselves upon those who don’t want to be intimate with us, even by omitting who we really are.

Really, if you have to deceive or hide who you are in order to date someone, do you really want to date them? I wouldn’t. That’s not fair to you and you’re denying them their right to choose who they want. What do you think will happen when the person wants a CIS mate and they discover the truth? They’re going to get pissed and dump you. Now you have to shame them into staying with you: “If you loved me for real this wouldn’t bother you”… that’s not going to convince anyone. They’re either going to leave, or they’ll resent you forever. That’s just how it is. You can be mad at that but that’s about as effective as protesting the rising of the sun. There’s just no way to win once you’ve gone down that road.

“I want a CIS mate” is not the same as “trans women are not women” - one is a preference, the other is harmful prejudice. On the flip side CIS people who do date trans people shouldn’t be shamed for their choices either. A man should be free to date a trans woman and not catch flak about it. Trans people should be able to be openly trans and not face hate speech or threats to their well-being. This, without any exception whatsoever.

The fundamental fact is when you shame or worse abrogate people’s right to choose who they want to get intimate with, it’s not going to end well for you. All you’re going to get is people who resent being coerced or bullied to date people they don’t want to. And that’s not something the country, or the world, will ever put up with. Except that right now, most people don’t imagine they can be labeled a transphobe just for wanting a CIS mate. And unpopular opinion: that should be nipped in the bud.

GardenVarietyAnxiety,

I’m a transwoman and I agree with you on this. When I was dating, I was upfront and when a guy said it was a deal breaker, it saved both of us a lot of time.

Most guys I talked to said it was a dealbreaker, and yeah it sucks. It makes you feel “othered.” But I can’t expect anyone to go outside their sexual comfort zone for a rando on Tinder.

Most of the guys were very polite about it all, too. And that’s all you should need to do.

If someone’s shaming you about it, that’s a good sign they have something going on in their own life. Essentially it’s their problem, not yours.

Hope this helps~

GBU_28, (edited )

Man I guess I’m a bigot, and I’m frustrated about it.

I get the phrase “transwomen are women” and respect that perspective.

But if I were seeking a cis woman partner who is seeking a cis man, it would be a dealbreaker if they were trans.

So I’m confronted with the reality that if I want to believe trans women are women, I shouldn’t be able to hold my second opinion, but it feels like one that can’t budge.

How to reconcile?

snooggums,
snooggums avatar

Are you attracted to every single woman that exists?

If not, then it is fine to not find certain groups of women not to your preferences without needing to define them as not women.

GBU_28,

No, it’s not that I need to label anyone, but in the decision tree of selection, biological, born sexual features is right at the beginning. The character of those features is lower, obviously below personality and mental characteristics. But for example I’d like to have a child, so I need to seek out partners with whom that can possibly happen.

So it isn’t that I’m just like, grading people, it’s that some things are impossible or immoveable

Again this is just me, not attempting to impact anyone else’s path

wahming,

As many of the other comments have pointed out, that’s not bigotry, as long as you respect their right to exist and aren’t looking down on them

GBU_28,

Will naturally. Of course. The topic is successful coupling and how to signal desire without being bigoted

Ataraxia,

It’s because you can’t change your sexuality. Being attracted only to CIS women is your sexuality.

ThatGirlKylie,

That’s not how sexuality works.

shani66,

Yes it is?

yarr,

How to reconcile?

LOL you don’t. “Transwomen are women (except when I am choosing a mate, then I can be selective)”

GBU_28,

Clarification: are you calling me out for inconsistency?

yarr,

So I’m confronted with the reality that if I want to believe trans women are women, I shouldn’t be able to hold my second opinion, but it feels like one that can’t budge.

You called yourself out.

GBU_28,

I’m not calling myself out, I’m exploring a personal facet.

I believe picking a mate is a 100% choice environment. I personally (as the subject of the example) am seeking a bio, cis woman.

The point of the thread is how to indicate your mate preference without being hurtful.

I dont think it’s bigoted to not seek a transgender mate, but am open to conversation on that. I can understand putting a “no trans” label on a profile can seem hurtful, even when the intention is anything but.

Your second statement (except for when I’m choosing a mate) seems reasonable. Is it not?

I’m not degrading trans women, I’m simply specifying the particulars of my search, which goes beyond “trans women are women”

yarr,

I personally (as the subject of the example) am seeking a bio, cis woman.

Ah, so you’re saying “no trans”

I can understand putting a “no trans” label on a profile can seem hurtful

Yes, people will feel excluded by this

I’m not degrading trans women

Correct, you are just saying that they aren’t sexually attractive to you and you assign higher sexual market value to cis women and that you see trans women and cis women as different

GBU_28,

And shouldn’t everyone individually assess their own "sexual market value"s, and be free to do so?

This is an “own” valuation, you aren’t valuing a whole group of people as “less than” you’re just valuing your own matches.

It’s not that I’m too good for any one in particular, just looking for certain varieties of humans to date

yarr,

And shouldn’t everyone individually assess their own "sexual market value"s, and be free to do so?

Yes

> “A and B are equal. However, I only prefer A. Why do people that enjoy A and B think I am being discriminatory towards B?”

GBU_28, (edited )

Again is the position of the speaker in your hanging question wrong/bigoted?

In my opinion not.

Perhaps shortsighted, overconcerned with others, but not bigoted

yarr,

His preference for cis women is 100% earnest. What is dishonest is “I believe thing A and B are equal, but prefer A only”. That indicates that either they are not equal, or he is not being honest about his preference.

GBU_28,

But is an “equal in society” and “equal in my personal mate search” really in conflict? I say no.

shani66,

How? Thinking you can’t have a preference without a hierarchy is incredibly conservative nonsense

chetradley,

That’s a huge logical leap you’re making , that sexual preference equates to having a higher opinion of one group over another. Is a gay man being discriminatory towards all women?

shalafi,

Oh boy do I have a load of dumb questions, if you’ll humor me? For context, I’m a middle-aged, cis, white guy. Dated a lot the last few years, settled down and just married the finest woman I’ve ever known.

What does “transwoman” mean? LOL, I don’t even know how to approach this. For me, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it’s a duck, good enough. I’d date a transwoman that was, uh, “completely” a woman. Gods I hope you know what I mean.

OK, I’ll go with my wife, maybe clear it up. She’s a Filipina, unapologetically feminine. All else being the same, if she had been born with a penis, wouldn’t care. Among 100 other things, I so love her femininity.

Am I embarrassing myself? Sure feels like it. Never had any trans friends, or even known any trans folks. Anyhow, I hope you understand I’m on your side, all the way. (That’s not a cutesy slogan. I train, I carry, I mean it with all my heart. If it comes to it, no one is going on a train if I can help it.)

magnetosphere,
magnetosphere avatar

No shame, my friend. People are still deciding/learning what accurate yet inoffensive terms are okay to use in a given situation. You care enough to be aware of the issue, and to me, that’s the most important thing.

Congratulations on your wedding!

nickwitha_k,

I think that you likely have met trans folks but were not aware. Hell, they may not have been aware. Relative to us cis people, they are a minority of human population, but trans people are everywhere. Keep rocking your allyship and make your acceptance of everyone for who they are clear, and you might find you have people around you that feel comfortable sharing. Also keep in mind that it can be physically very dangerous for them to share who they are.

GhostFence,

Congratulations on being married!

A transwoman (my best interpretation) means someone born male who took hormones to become female, and maybe an operation to exchange a penis for a vagina. A transwoman is completely a woman, they were just not assigned female at birth.

All else being the same, if she had been born with a penis, wouldn’t care. Among 100 other things, I so love her femininity.

See, I support this freedom to choose who you want to be with.

Am I embarrassing myself? Sure feels like it. Never had any trans friends, or even known any trans folks. Anyhow, I hope you understand I’m on your side, all the way. (That’s not a cutesy slogan. I train, I carry, I mean it with all my heart. If it comes to it, no one is going on a train if I can help it.)

Well it’s not like half the populace is trans. They make up at most 3% of the overall population. There are whole regions of America where they don’t exist or are very much hiding who they are. You may have a trans friend and not even know it.

BTW do you have any connection to the John Brown gun club? I’m not close friends with their members but just wondering.

GhostFence,

Thank you for your response. I feel I must repeat in case it is ambiguous: I am absolutely against any form of trans shaming whatsoever. If you want to date a trans person, you should be 100% free to do so without negative social consequence.

GardenVarietyAnxiety,

Not ambiguous. You’re good 😜

chaosppe,
@chaosppe@lemmy.world avatar

I hope this isn’t actually an unpopular opinion. People objectively have a type of what they do and don’t want. Specification is a good thing and will help people find their match faster. The last thing a person, either trans or not trans would want, is to spend time with someone who will never work for them.

Donjuanme,

“I want to announce that I have no intention of allowing myself to get to know a certain type of person”

“Why are people treating me like I’m a certain type of person, who people wouldn’t like to get to know?”

GhostFence,

Freedom goes both ways.

Zorque,

You have to date someone to get to know them? That's kind of sad.

GhostFence,

Not me. I’ll happily get to know and befriend LGBTQ. And go vigilante if I see them being threatened. I have a 12 year old son and if he wants to date a transgirl she’s welcome in my house as his girlfriend.

MxM111,
MxM111 avatar

Are you purposefully distorting their words? Since when getting to know is the same as possibly having sex, having a baby and get married?

magnetosphere,
magnetosphere avatar

Getting to know someone and dating them are two very different things.

I know lots of people that I have absolutely no desire to date. That doesn’t mean I’m bigoted against them.

donuts, (edited )
donuts avatar
  1. I respect other people's expressions of individuality, romantic preferences and unique sexuality.

  2. I apply broad negative labels on people who don't want all the same things that I want from a partner.

Pick one.

It's possible to support people without being romantically, physically and/or sexually attracted to them. For example, a straight man might not want a lesbian woman for a partner (and, you know, she probably doesn't want him either), but they can still support each other, believe in solidarity, be friends and allies to each other and acknowledge each other's fundamental human rights.

I genuinely don't know if I would be attracted to a trans woman (I'm happy to keep an open mind but I haven't been in a situation where it's come up in my life), but I do believe in trans rights, I love my trans friends, and I want them (and everyone else) to find happiness in their own skin and be able to live as the person they want to be without some asshole politicians in red ties telling them they cannot. I don't think it's hard.

In my opinion that's not a bad thing, it's a good thing.

Asudox,
@Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

Locked as transphobia seems to be pretty common in the comments.

phoenixz,

I doubt there will be very many trans people out there that are willing to date somebody without revealing that they are trans. When that eventually comes out it would be a VERY dangerous situation for that person. Anyone that wouldn’t care you could tell before the first date. If you can’t tell them, it’s a BAD idea not to tell them

CultHero,

If this happens please let me know. I’ve never heard of a trans person saying they don’t tell their partners they’re trans.

Some people may not want to choose to disclose on the first date, depending on the other person’s personality. If there’s nothing there and no second date no harm no foul. If there’s a spark and a wish to take things further I’ve heard (read) many trans people saying they’ll wait until after the date to disclose they’re trans by text to be able to avoid a violent confrontation.

The climate is extremely hostile for trans people right now and people have to worry about their safety.

Stanwich,

I’m 43 male. Can’t I just say I’m straight looking for a woman who is too.

sukhmel,

I’m 43 male. Can’t I just say I’m straight looking for a woman who is too.

…a woman who is too 43 male

Klnsfw,

As a black man I don’t think it’s racist if a woman says she doesn’t want to date a black man.

As a bisexual man, I think it’s biphobic if a man or a woman say they don’t want to date a bisexual man.

And to be true, I wouldn’t date biphobic people.

So, yes, it’s more convenient for everybody to clearly say what you’re looking for and not looking for. But it’s still discrimination, especially when it comes from someone in the dominant class (straight, white, able-bodied…)

lefaucet,

JustTF is wrong with you? Juat say man looking for woman for exclusive relationship. Chances of a trans person even starting a conversation with you is 1:1000000.

You’re worrying about something you shouldn’t.

Worry about climate change and cancer instead.

GhostFence,

The rest of us are having a civil conversation here, what’s got you enraged?

reverendsteveii,

without being shamed

it’s not enough to be able to do things, people should be forced to approve of what I do and tell me what a great guy I am, regardless of what I do

littlecolt,

I have never run into this, honestly. I would assume if you are looking for a possible sexual relationship, that a person’s sexual preference matters. Not to say gender is not important, but sex also is in this instance. If you expect a dick and get a clit, that’s going to be a bit of a let-down, no matter how much you are romantically attracted to the person. I think it’s mature to have this conversation early in the relationship. More people need to understand that you can discuss this kind of stuff like adults and well, if you’re someone looking for a certain type of partner, there should not be shame attached to it.

Mahonia,

So I appreciate you approaching the topic with some care here.

I think with this topic people can be fairly reactive on both sides. This to say: There’s a genuine desire of far-right actual transphobes to exterminate trans people. And from there, trans people tend to get convinced that transphobes are everywhere and transphobia is in everything. People who are systematically victimized have a tendency to argue with moderates because there’s a compulsion to pick the smaller and seemingly more winnable fight… but it tends to have the opposite from the intended reaction. I don’t think this speaks to any bigger truth however.

With that said: No, it’s not transphobic to want to date cis people. I know plenty of trans people who specifically won’t date cis people, so it goes both ways. Curiously, I also know some cis people who only date trans people, and some trans people who only date cis people.

paddirn,

The one thing that kind of disturbs me about trans relationships when I’ve called it out, is that trans men and trans women don’t feel the need to disclose that they’re trans to their partner, as if it’s not something important that the other person has a right to know.

Just to be clear, I have nothing against the trans community and I think it’s horrible that they’re being made into scapegoats and getting attacked by right-wing assholes, but at the same time, people have a right to know some things about their partners. I think trans folks have every right to transition into whatever makes them happy. If people are open for that relationship, more power to them, I am happy for you, BUT that’s still a choice that somebody should be allowed to make on their own whether they want to be in that relationship or not with full knowledge of what’s going on. To me, it’s borderline sexual assault if you’ve not disclosed that to a partner, since knowing the truth could potentially have changed their actions, though maybe it’s more something like “sexual fraud”.

The arguments I’ve gotten against this from some people just don’t hold up, things like, “Well you wouldn’t disclose every dental procedure you’ve had to a partner would you?” No, because nobody gives a shit about how many crowns you have when they’re trying to have sex with you, that’s irrelevant to the situation. Whereas, “this person biologically started as the opposite sex and they’ve made a transition”, is kind of a big deal for some people and could be a deal breaker. Whether you think that judgement is bigoted doesn’t matter, that’s a boundary that they’ve set for themselves and should still be respected. Them declining is probably helping you dodge a bullet, since them finding out after the fact is WAAAY more likely to go south pretty quick.

Mahonia,

I don’t disagree with any of the content of what you said, but I’ve never met a trans person who defaulted to nondisclosure. And doing that is a very unsafe move for any trans person.

There is the typical “I’m gonna at least see if there’s some genuine interest here before I decide if it’s worth it to have this conversation,” but I’ve never met anyone who would forgo that up to and after sex. I don’t think this is common at all.

dumpsterlid, (edited )

What is common is the stupid meme joke of “I went to fuck this chick and when she took off her clothes she had a DICK”. It doesn’t matter if it actually happens or not, cis people are often obsessed with being scared by the thought and it’s just pathetic honestly.

Nevermind that yes, given how close minded most cis people are, doing this would be as you say a very unsafe thing to do (both physically and emotionally) or that it doesn’t really make sense to just hope that a random cis person isn’t going to react negatively (especially because cis people just can’t stop telling and re-telling this kind of insecurity disguised as a joke). Also if you are having sex with someone you know so little about that this comes as a surprise to you… I kind of feel like maybe you shouldn’t be complaining about being surprised by details of a partner when you didn’t bother to find out anything important about them at all before you decided to have sex with them?? Sure having a penis or not doesn’t really define who you are in any meaningful sense (that isn’t imposed by society) but if you get to the point that you are going to be intimate with someone I just really am having a hard time fathoming why this wouldn’t have already come up?

Ok maybe the trans person really has fallen for you and is in denial about how close minded you are… but even in that case (which feels more like a hypothetical than an actual common scenario) acting like this is some nefarious or mean act is ridiculous. The cis person just has to see a dick for a brief second, it is no different than going to the gym locker room for fucks sake, for the trans person now they have to deal with the emotional intensity of being instantaneously and aggressively rejected by a partner they thought was in to them and unfortunately might physically be in danger from violence now. How does this make any sense at all? It is a waste of breathe to talk about this shit all it does is force the spotlight on feeling bad for how fragile cis men’s identities are given their insecurities while ignoring the very real physical and emotional violence enacted upon trans and queer people every single moment upon this earth.

The only other lame insecurity that disguises itself as a joke among cis people that can give this one a run for its money is cis-men’s fear of their own butt and what might happen if they realized it felt good to have something up there.

RBWells,

I have some thoughts.

Are you asking what will get you the best results? I’d be offput by any guy who said “no trans ladies, no black ladies, no fat ladies” even though I’d probably be their target demographic as a fit, thin, white lady. Because I’d assume that guy was a jerk, probably a racist and I don’t want to deal with that. So maybe you don’t want to be rude about it.

But I don’t think it’s wrong at all to have orientations and preferences. Almost nobody is absolutely attracted only to personality. You are probably picky beyond just wanting cis people, and it’s not a small detail IMO, it’s similar to a chronic medical condition because it requires ongoing care, not everyone is prepared for that.

Churbleyimyam,

I dunno, dating apps are part of the internet and therefore shouldn’t be taken too seriously. Until you meet up with someone it’s all in your imagination anyway.

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