That being said, in ancient times they gave us milk and we gave them grain during winter. Contracts can always be revisited, but don't act like this was entirely one sided.
Are you suggesting we start keeping human women on farms to milk them? Do you really want to go to the store and buy a bottle of breast milk to pour over your cereal?
Yo what that was your first thought instead of rice milk, oat milk, coconut milk, almond milk or just not eating cereal. You are a big boy, you'll be alright without baby milk.
My honest tip would be: Just forget that something like cheese even existed and eat something else. Even I (as a full time vegan) don’t really like the “cheese” we have - but since I just don’t eat anything “cheese-like” anymore, I’m really not bothered to be honest.
smh, this just kicks the can down the road. almond milk is for baby almonds. and what are the lil newborn coconuts gonna drink? cashews will actually die if they don’t have the proper milk in the first few weeks.
I did keto 2 years ago to lose some weight and found some very good substitutes. The low carb bread I got at the market tasted just like regular bread. Almond butter was a fine substitute for peanut butter. Pork rinds made for decent croutons in a salad. Stuff like that. Worked for me, anyway.
I've had some pretty tasty vegan cheeses before. I'm not a vegan or vegetarian, but I like trying new things. The vegan cheeses made with fermented coconut were really good substitutes imo (and I hate coconut)
I’m sorry you’re being downvoted. I support vegans in so many things. Unfortunately vegan cheese is an acquired taste and not a good replacement for meat eaters.
So, I’m not 100% getting where you are going with this argument, but I think what you are saying is: If beings have less brain capability they are less worthy of being treated with the same respect as beings with higher brain capabilities. And ultimately, that it would be OK to kill beings that have less brain capabilities.
I don’t think they’re being abused by giving dairy.
Could you spell out for me what is needed for a cow to give milk? Because I think we need to clarify “what actually happens” to cows in that process in order to classify something as abuse or not.
By that logic, you would also have no problem in killing people with lower brain capabilities - like people with dementia or mentally challenged people.
Demonstrably not true and I don’t get where you would pick up such a false bit of information.
Who said anything about eugenics? Cows are several orders of magnitude dumber than anyone other than a vegetable. And if you’re a vegetable then it’s only the selfishness of your loved ones keeping you alive. I have explicitly told my partner that vegetable = pull the fucking plug.
Herd animals like cows flee and leave their young behind. It is fundamental to their psychology to move on quickly from a young one dying. They fundamentally are different than humans and do not care the way a human does.
Yes but they’re not suffering or feeling pain on any dairy farm worth talking about. We’re not talking about the abhorrent practices of factory farming, we’re talking the ethics of dairy, period.
They weren’t laughing in the gas chambers you sick fuck. What the fuck is wrong with you. How dare you cheapen the horror of children clawing at the doors screaming.
Well, that’s an extremly complex questions and there are many cases to consider and personal opinion on these can vary a lot.
For example one of the least limited cases should be animal testing for medical purposes. There should still be limits, but they have to be carefully decided by weighing the potential benefits against the suffering caused.
Another prominented case would be factory farming. I think that’s quite bad and also makes for a poorer end product. But I don’t think there is anything fundamentally wrong with keeping livestock for eating it. But the details of how regulation should work exactly are again quite complex and beyond the scope of a lemmy comment.
For example one of the least limited cases should be animal testing for medical purposes
Point given. Or at least half a point… The problem I have with animal testing is, that for
alternatives exist, that often are safer and better that animal testing - but they are often not considered of plain out forbidden just because of some ancient laws and regulations. Technology has advanced and could prevent a lot of animal suffering, just regulations have not been keeping up with the innovation.
Animals in testing facilities are treated like shit their whole life, just because it is “cheaper” that way. I mean yeah, there might still be cases where there is no current alternative to animal testing, but treating the animals with absolutely ZERO respect is not acceptable imho.
I don’t think there is anything fundamentally wrong with keeping livestock for eating it
So, if I would keep some cute, fluffy dogs or cats at my place just so that I can kill them tomorrow and eat them - maybe even sell their meat - would that be still be OK for you?
Point given. Or at least half a point… The problem I have with animal testing is, that for (…)
I’ve not been keeping up with it either. I’m all for avoiding animal testing when it’s not needed. I’m just not against it on principle.
Animals in testing facilities are treated like shit their whole life, just because it is “cheaper” that way.
I mean that sounds horrid at first, but it’s a valid point. I’m not quite sure what the alternative methods you mentionred are, but something like a complex computer model is probably much more expensive and slower then just testing on mice. And it could help getting a procedure or drug to people faster and cheaper.
So, if I would keep some cute, fluffy dogs or cats at my place just so that I can kill them tomorrow and eat them - maybe even sell their meat - would that be still be OK for you?
Again, I won’t object on principle. I know someone that tried dog and it’s apprarently not that good. Also I think you can somewhat legally eat dog where I live. Like you can’t trade the meat, but slaughtering and eating are fine, so you kind of have to find a farmer that will invite you to dinner. But not really something I’m interested in.
I’d have much more objections to people eating rare, wild animals, like whales. Cats and dogs are domesticated animals, so we’re not going to run out of them.
And you provided a question that wouldn’t bring anything to the table, except for wasting the readers time. Turnabout is fair play. You brought up an insane hypothetical non sequitur, I’m just following along.
Lol @ all the downvotes raining in this thread. If it weren’t normalised the way it is right now, and some wacko would introduce it today, people would be disgusted and outraged. Just like with dog meat in China and South Korea, that one dish with a grown chicken embryo called (from the top of my head) Balut, and fermented herring as they eat in the nordics.
People just don’t like to have facts shoved in their faces that make them think. Think about how something they’ve grown up to see as normal, might not be normal after all. The logical emotion from that is outrage, dragging your heels, etc.
Cows, like we have bred, should not exist in the first place. Its a cruelty to have such big udders and while cows can live up to 15 years most milk cows will live to the age of 5-6 because they are used like bio-machines, getting bred and sucked dry all through their short, miserable lives. “But dairy cows can be happy”. Sure man, just like the people in the mines and sweatshops…
You know you’ve succeeded with a truly unpopular opinion when you get more downvotes on Unpopular Opinion while no one is complaining that it is a popular opinion.
It is an interesting picture you are painting and true, it is probably how most people would see it.
However, your comparison with religion is a little bit off. Engaging in religion is (and should be) a personal choice that is just including you - i.e. it should not force or be forced by others.
But by choosing to consume animal products, you don’t just choose something for yourself - you are forcing someone else into pain and ultimately death.
That is the reason why “vegans are so annoying”. We don’t give a crap about what YOU do - but we want to stand in for the victims that can’t make themselves be heard. I hope this makes it easier to understand our motives and why we feel the moral obligation to act on them.
I could lay out an argument that supporting religion means you support slavery and crusades.
I’m not going to engage your false utopia. Human brains literally developed from agriculture and cattle farming. Reality is meat consumption is a need for the majority of the planet and beyond an individual consumers’ responsibility to solve.
You choose to live on each day despite knowing you will consume and pollute inherently, yet seek to criticize the choices of others?
Human brains literally developed from agriculture and cattle farming
If if this was true, this doesn’t prove that it is still necessary or even beneficial today. Humans did a lot of things in the past that would be seen as strange today (you already mentioned crusades for example). It does not follow that, just because “we did it in the past” means we still need to do it today.
meat consumption is a need for the majority of the planet
I don’t fully agree. Please give me circumstances where there would be a NEED for this.
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